Image Designer Archive
Thread: ID Top Ten Concerns Runesabre Answers Inside :)
Well... I don't disagree with either one of you. Perhaps I should say, "I think we may find that some of these timers are too long". Thats been my admittedly limited experience. Two minutes... I can see. Five is kind of pushing it. The few things I've done have been along the lines of "I want a mohawk". Ok, done. Takes like 20 seconds.
I have also worried about advancement for a long time. If you searched my posts you'd find one the first week of live exclaiming my surprise that there were already Master Architects after 5 days. Holocron replied saying that he thought it was fine. Well now we all think its too fast. I just don't think "time" is what should slow it down. If they are worried about advancement, then up the XP requirements or lower the xp gained per action, but just making people "wait it out" after every change is just flat boring.
LeBob wrote:
RS
I am glad to see that you guys are concerned with the macro-profession-mastery that has plagued SWG for a while now. However, I think you should keep in mind that time spent is not always synonymous with pride of one's accomplishments.
Instead of having a hard-coded 'this will take x time to do' system it would be far better to have a 'this will take less than x time to do, but you need to think to do it effeciently' system.
I do realize that the latter is a harder system to implement.
thanks
This is a better way of saying what I think about the time sinks. I think there could be a more creative and fun way of slowing advancement than just putting some timer in the system. I think its a cop out.
DEVs
If you want to make the profession harder to master, just disable all /ImageDesigner macros and there you go. Now gaining ID XP will be a pain in the booty.
As for the timer, get rid of it, it serves no purpose but to presure on you as your trying to work.
BTW, when are we getting NEW hairstyles and tatoos? Since thats what everyone really wants, not those stupid, non-star warsy feeling emotes.
Kwee wrote:
7/ Exp Gain Too Slow
The ID community is very concerned about the current rate of gaining exp. At the very bare bones minimum it would currently take someone roughly 60 hours to master, and that’s under ideal conditions (willing friend to click at perfect intervals for at least 60 hours). Those of us who are casual players and did not make use of mind-altering substances or buffs under the old system know from experience that the ID exp grind is a mind-numbingly-boring carpal-tunnel’s-inducing nightmare. We wanted our profession’s exp gain to be non-trivial, but not torturous. 60 hours or more might be reasonable if the process of getting the exp were fun, but sadly it is not.
a) What is considered a minimum amount of hours a profession should take a casual player to master?
b) How many hours a week is a casual player assumed to play?
c) Is the exp system under consideration for major tweaking?
Message Edited by Kwee on 05-11-2004 11:42 PM
Message Edited by Kwee on 05-12-2004 09:12 AM
Message Edited by Barb-Wire on 05-12-2004 11:42 AM
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
2/ Cosmetic/Body Timers
Both Image Designers and customers feel that the current timers for cosmetic and body changes, 2 and 5 minutes, are unbearably long.
a) Why were such long timers chosen?
b) Are timer reductions being considered?
The timers exist to ensure advancing as an Image Designer is not considered a trivial accomplishment and couldn't easily be macroed in any way to gain a significant advancement advantage. Mastering any profession in SWG should be an accomplishment that should be make the player feel like they have put in some effort and been successful and those who master their respective professions should feel proud of their accomplishments.
Players really working towards accomplishing a cool, unique look shouldn't notice the timers since the timers start counting down as soon as the Image Design session begins and the changes should be able to be activated immediately when you are finally pleased with your results. We are considering timer reduction perks for Master Image Designers.
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 05-12-2004 11:03 AM
Respectfully, the implementation of timers was handled in a very poor manner. Consider: many image design resusts occur at the shuttle/starport while waiting for the shuttle. These pre-change timers now preclude quick changes of hair style or color or eye color (especially eye color) during those waits. Had the timers been implemented as post-change medic-style timers this problem would not have been created, while still slowing down the advance to master.
Both Image Designers and customers feel that the current timer for Stat Migration is torturously unbearably long (10 minutes). We are assuming that the long timer was put in place to limit how quickly stats can be migrated. We can however conceive of ways in which being able to migrate stats that often could lead to various game-play issues. A way to kill both birds with one stone would be to have the Stat Migration timer happen after the ID session, allowing the customer to be stat migrated only so often.
a) What is the reason behind the 10-minute timer?
b) Is 10 minutes between stat migrations seen as enough time to avoid abuse?
c) Couldan enforced delay be put in place between initiating stat migration sessions on a player, regardless of which ID does it, removing the need for the ID to keep the UI active?
OK, Let's look at the math...
First, the Entertainer /ID ladder. there's 1 ladder. It needs 1K, 5K, 10K, 15K (31K total)
So, 31K for Entertainer/ID.
Next, the ID Novice box. That's 10K
Finally, ID Master:
4 ladders. Each needs 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K (100K total per ladder)
Total exp needed = 400,000
Grand total: 441,000 exp needed.
(From here on, I'm going to "average")
200 exp/design action => 441K/200 =>2205 ID sessions
3.5 min per session*sessions => 2205*3.5 =>7717.5 minutes
total time (not including time needed to level up) = 7717 min
That's 128 hours, non-stop. If you figure 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, plus 5 hours a day on the 6 and 7th... that's over 5 weeks...
It will take a HARDCORE, 7 day a week player more then a month to do this, if that person does nothing else and ALWAYS has a line of clients and never mis-clicks or goes LD
(Casual gamers - look for 3-6 months or more..... )
In other words, this action has just capped ID. If ya ain't an ID now, you ain't gonna be.
If you are, don't drop it, cuz Stat changing is going to be a sellers market.... 20K or more.... minimum 
Kwee wrote:
5/ ID’s Cannot Migrate Their Own Stats
Other than the three Entertainer professions, all other professions benefit from every single one of their abilities.
Tell that to Bio-Engineers, whocan not benefit from any of their skills, unless they have other professions.
Create a pet? Can't tame it unless you are a CH.
Create a tissue? Can't use it unless you are a Tailor.
Create a food additive? Can't use it unless you are a Chef.
Barb-Wire wrote:
if you grind out image designer its going to take like 12 days of nonstop clicking to do ID from begineing to end with the timers in place. did anyone at SOE do the raw math of how long a grind this is going to be. most players only grind an hour or so maybe less at a profession. for a casual gamer it is going to literally take a year of real time to grind out ID heh. if the timers stay as is no one is going to want to take up ID.
Master Image Designers no longer have to get experience and have few perks for their final skill-box.
a) Why were Master Image Designers given timers for cosmetic and body changes?
b) Could these please be removed?
RS, this question is being asked of you by the profession itself, not some other group or whiner. I think Kwee expressed her opinion on it pretty well n the first sentence. Obviously if the correspondant thinks its "torturously, unbearably long" doesn't that bear some re-evaluating of the change?
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
3/ Stat Migration Timer
Both Image Designers and customers feel that the current timer for Stat Migration is torturously unbearably long (10 minutes). We are assuming that the long timer was put in place to limit how quickly stats can be migrated. We can however conceive of ways in which being able to migrate stats that often could lead to various game-play issues. A way to kill both birds with one stone would be to have the Stat Migration timer happen after the ID session, allowing the customer to be stat migrated only so often.
a) What is the reason behind the 10-minute timer?
b) Is 10 minutes between stat migrations seen as enough time to avoid abuse?
c) Couldan enforced delay be put in place between initiating stat migration sessions on a player, regardless of which ID does it, removing the need for the ID to keep the UI active?
There were several design proposals on the table on how to handle Stat Migration. We knew we needed to limit how often Stats could be migrated because we didn't want people changing their stats instantly whenever and whereever they wanted. The question was how much limitation was needed. The most extreme proposal being considered at the time was allowing Stat Migration to happen only once a week for an individual player. We decided to settle for a 10min timer.
The timer occurs like it does now (wait 10 min before the stat migration changes activate) because theimpetus of giving Image Designers stat migration was to provide Image Designers a game function that was not purely cosmetic. At the same time, I didn't want Image Designers to be treated like vending machines where players would stop by, pay their credits, get their stat migrations and then leave in the blink of an eye. The Image Designer is a social,face-to-face service provider style of profession and I wanted to preserve that environment going forward. Finally, while it wasn't a major rationale, I felt the residual gain with the 10 min timer is players will perhaps decide to check out other things that the Image Designer could do for them and hopefully stimulate more business and interaction for the Image Designers.
We've fixed a number of exploits and abuses with the stat migration timers and range. If you know of other exploits or abuses, please don't hesitate to let Kwee or myself know so I can have those issues evaluated and addressed.