Image Designer Archive

I think Image Design xp should stay as it is... Why? Well, any crafting profession can master extremely fast, given they have all the supplies. Image Design is just different, instead of supplies, you need someone who can hit accept as fast as you can. I don't see it any different.

I seems ridiculous that someone can master this profession in 4 hours, to the point that it's almost impossible to believe.

Geez I make comment about xp being too fast and everyone shoots me down, Rilawyn makes it an issue to send to development and your all behind it... neat!

Thanks Rilawyn, xp advancement is way too fast. Please please please stress this issue to the devs so thatour profession isnt something someone can just dabble in, but actually a profession they want to master.

I think if the rate of xp gain is slowed you would be playing to the lowest common denominator: the power gamer. There are always going to be people that play non-stop for hours to master a profession first for whatever dubious "status" that confers. You can't design a game primarily based on that kind of person because you only frustrate the more casual players...like me.

I find the xp gain to be frustratingly slow, but I am not asking for it to be increased - there is a great sense of accomplishment when I level. And I also do not want to be punished for not working on ID exclusively just so I can be a master asap.

I can't believe the reasons noted for a slower gain are the norm. How many people really have a close friend willing to spend all their time (hours and hours and hours...or 4 if you really have nothing better to do) clicking accept? How many people buy second accounts to powerlevel? If someone is going to put that much time, money,and effort into speeding up the skill tree then there is not much you can do to stop them without hurting the rest of the players.It could be argued that someonebeing that intense deserves their quick mastery. I have found people willing to let me work on them while they entertain or heal, but I would never subject them to hours of powerlevelling - it isn't fair to them nor is it particularly fun.

Think about this: If you spend four hours in a row to master a skill and I spend four hours over a period of several weeks, is the xp gain too fast?

Please think carefully before implementing this suggestion. Nouva's last post concerns me...as it gives me the impression that the real reason behind this request is to lower possible competition from new image designers and not as a means to better the profession. I believe Nouva has good intentions, don't get me wrong, but as far as appearances go you have to admit that the suggestion can be read that way...

Khimaira Roe
Novice Image Designer, Ahazi

Nouva, I definitely take issue with you saying that everyone is agreeing with Rilawyn. One person said they made master in four hours over three days (which I'm assuming is slightly exaggerated) who was presumably using the hyperclick lined up boxes method, had a willing partner clicking accept, and was using focus boosting drink and food. A second person said that IF they indeed were able to do it in four hours THEN it was too fast. Again let me point out that your average person is not going to be able to that. Tygress (Rilawyn) who was one of the first master IDs on my serverposted herself that it took her two weeks of ten hours a day. Another master ID on my server who clicks VERY fast, as I know having practiced with her, mentioned 24 hours total as her estimate when she was near to finishing. I myself am closer to the average player (I play 2-5 hours a day, around my little boys' schedules), but probably still play more than average. I'm dividing my time between tailoringand image designing and have 8 skill boxes in novice ID, 3 skill boxes in tailoring.Each tailoring boxtakes at least twenty times longer Does that upset me? No Image Design does not affect game balancing in any way whatsoever. Soam I adabbler who doesn't deserve to reach master ID? Should I be slowed down? I think Rilawyn is a sweetie and really admire the fact that she is tackling bugs first, but Idon't feelthata request for increased exp cost belongs in our top five issues list. Perhaps if a thread had been started on what everyone's top five were and it had come up more often than not... If the responses to your thread were any indication, it seems unlikely.

The developers were aware that betamaster ID's reached that goal7 times faster than the ideal they haddecided onand made the decisionnot tochange it. I really don't have much longer to get to Master and have a nice healthy playtime in which to reach it so an exp increase would not reallyaffect me much. However, I would definitely take issue with how such a change would affect those casual players who are super excited about Image Design, are doing it as their main or onlyprofession, anddo not have much time to play.

It seems as thoughhaving competition from casual players seems to be your concern. I suggest reasessing your advertising, location, and customer service. There are sometimes up to four master image designers in my city (besides myself, not yet a master) and I still get stopped as I walk around. We refer people to each other if we're about to camp or back when none of us were masters, when there wassomething we could notdo yet. Myself and a few other tailors do that too on the clothes frontand my business as a whole is booming. Get to know some of your local casual player Image Designers, you might make a few good friends

PS. Nouva forgive me if I have misread your reasons for wanting exp slowed down. If you really are concerned that people will pick ID up for fun on the side that aren't going to do anything with it, keep in mind that we have limited skill points and eventually people will keep what they really enjoy. I see so few Image Designers kicking around compared to other professions though that I don't think this is happening much. All that said, SWG was developed with the casual player in mind, and the main reason given for there being no need for more than one character per server was thatit was intended that you be able to dabble inseveral professions if you wanted, and surrender skills as you figured out what you most enjoyed. As the server ages we will probably see people start to streamline into two or three professions and we will all be dabblers in something. I can for example eventually master ID and tailoring - for the head to toe image - and still do novice dancer or merchant (can't decide which now). Anyway I hopemy eariler post didn't come out sounding super grumpy, one of my little guys woke me up at 5-something-amand I amSO not a morning person. *drags off to get breakfast*

For pay-confirmation, it would be nice if we had an editor like the char creation editor and then you could change everything at once. When they like the whole thing, a simple "accept" button for both would be used. THe client side would have a little pay-window to fill in, and the IDer would have the controls.

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Kwee wrote:

One person said they made master in four hours over three days (which I'm assuming is slightly exaggerated) who was presumably using the hyperclick lined up boxes method, had a willing partner clicking accept, and was using focus boosting drink and food.

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Actually I'm not axaggerating at all. I did line up my boxes and did use focus boosting items, as these items are very easy to get and it would be silly not to. I didn't start out intending to powerlevel this profession, but it just went so fast I was master before I knew it.. It makes it feel less of an accomplishment somehow, although I do love the profession and I love how people get so happy when whatever problem with their appearance they had gets fixed. Not everyone will be able to get xp like this, but a lot of people will and I don't think this benefits the profession. There needs to be found a way to keep xp for more "casual" (although I do consider myself a casual player) to still gain xp at a steady rate while slowing down this method of "hyperclicking" to a master title.

Okay if you spent 4 hours clicking, you're not a casual gamer. You're a powergamer. Don't argue, accept it. You said to yourself, "What's the quickest thing I can do to master this profession". You went and found the spices or the foods and either had a second accoutn ro a very dedicated friend sit there while you realigned all the windows and had a click party. You are not representitive of the Image Design community, and slowing exp gain is only going to hurt the profession in the long run, as people get fed up for the very few abilties they gain, NONE of which effect game balance in the slightest, except to eat up skill points that could be spent ina combat class, or a crafting class, or a medical class or even a dancer or muscian, which actualy do have an effect on the ease of game play.

A casual gamer is someone who comes in, chats with their freinds, does a few IDs on others or themself for a bit. Heck, they may even align the windows and click for awhile with a friend before they get bored and decide to dance or hunt or grind out some boffa treats. Casual players are taking weeks to reach master in this profession, not hours, not even days. Weeks.

So welcome to the powergammer club, it's not a bad place to be as long as you're not in denial.

-Soon Mot (Powergamer)

Master Image Designer

Lowca, Naboo, Theed

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Soonmot wrote:

Okay if you spent 4 hours clicking, you're not a casual gamer. You're a powergamer. Don't argue, accept it. You said to yourself, "What's the quickest thing I can do to master this profession". You went and found the spices or the foods and either had a second accoutn ro a very dedicated friend sit there while you realigned all the windows and had a click party. You are not representitive of the Image Design community, and slowing exp gain is only going to hurt the profession in the long run, as people get fed up for the very few abilties they gain, NONE of which effect game balance in the slightest, except to eat up skill points that could be spent ina combat class, or a crafting class, or a medical class or even a dancer or muscian, which actualy do have an effect on the ease of game play.

A casual gamer is someone who comes in, chats with their freinds, does a few IDs on others or themself for a bit. Heck, they may even align the windows and click for awhile with a friend before they get bored and decide to dance or hunt or grind out some boffa treats. Casual players are taking weeks to reach master in this profession, not hours, not even days. Weeks.

So welcome to the powergammer club, it's not a bad place to be as long as you're not in denial.

-Soon Mot (Powergamer)

Master Image Designer

Lowca, Naboo, Theed

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No you fail to see that the way I did it was just common sense. These spices and drinks can simply be bought from the bazaar if you need them, and using them just made it gothat fast. My brother plays a musician and because he was playing music there anyway, I got him to click accept for me. We have a very good cantina band team who all play regularly so the cantina was just the place to hang out.

You have no idea what I "said to myself", you don't know me at all, and quite frankly, you're talking out of your ass.

You're missing the point I'm trying tomake. ID is very easy to master, even for the more casual player, and if you think I'm a "powergamer" because I gained skill quickly, and don't consider that it might have been because of it being too easy to skill, then you're the one in denial, or just looking to flame someone who's genuinly concerned for the profession.

I agree that clicking for four hours in a row is a power gamer style. There are so many definitions of casual and power gamer out there that they really aren't good terms to use in any discussion. If I remember correctly, Holocron posted that their definition of a casual player was someone who played two-three hours a day (like after they come home from work for example) and that such a person should get their mastery in two to three months. I agree that someone who devotes their entire play time to only hyper clicking will get master the skill much much faster than intended. My definition of a power gamer style is doing one thing intensely, and nothing else, until some or other goal is reached. Most of the time for example, I play in a casual way, I get on, answer emails, chat with friends, make a few pieces of clothes, put them on the bazaar, run through town, maybe check my harvesters, do a LOT of hairstyling, see if anyone is available to practice with me (yes I know some of you master ID's have offered to let me practice on you, but I prefer to torture people that are also having to do it), and then maybe hyperclick with someone for an hour or so before I have to log. After several hyperclick sessions both in beta and postrelease, I still can't imagine how you could master the profession in four hours. Are you a zabrak? I know they have insane willpower... Anyhow mypointis that most people are probably like me, doing two orthree professions at a time, nothaving someoneavailable for several hours in a row to click on. Slowing down the exp will mean that casualstyle players will take four or five months to master the profession instead of two or three. Thosecasual style gamersdevoting their full time to ID'ing will master it ina month instead of a week or two. Sohere is my question: how does that help the profession? Or any other profession for that matter?

Err...how does that HURT the profession?

*grumbles about no edit button*

PS. I ground throughabout 30,000 pointsof ID in about an hourlast night, using willpower food, lining up my boxes, doing nothing but clicking (and a little resting now and then). I was power gaming in that time, and there is no way Icould have gotten the other 18 boxes in threemore hours. Maybe I'm missing some sort of power gamer gene

Okay, let's say for a moment that you are right and the xp gain is too fast. What do you propose as a fix?

Lower the xp per change? Double the xp requirement per level? Both? Require crafting? Increase training costs? (BTW, for those of you mastering in 4 hours...where did you get the money to pay for training? I am assuming there was no higher level ID'er to train you for free?)

Maybe the gain is too fast and I am just not perceiving it because the point gain per change is so low. So, let's say instead of just decreasing the xp per change it increases while also increasing the xp requirement per level at a higher percentage. For example, give 50xp per hair change while upping the level I requirement from 10,000 to 25,000. At least this way a person will perceive they are getting more experience and the hill won't seem nearly so steep as it would if you were to decrease that hair xp to 6 per change. (these numbers are just used as an example only).

A player needs to feel they are accomplishing something and the danger of slowing the xp is that you will frustrate the person to the point of discouraging them from playing the profession...which I guess was the point about "Please please please stress this issue to the devs so that our profession isnt something someone can just dabble in, but actually a profession they want to master."

Another point I would like you to think about is fairness. If xp gain is slowed, would all the current ID masters be willing to surrender all their too quickly gained skill to level the playing field? Why should it be harder for me to make master than it was for you only because I didn't get there before the devs made an adjustment?

I wouldn't ask this of them nor would I want someone to ask this of me. The process of gaining enough experience to make the ID'er useful has to be one of the most boring and mechanical in the game. Out of the bajillion clicks the fun ones are the ones where you actually get to give another character the cool new look they've been wanting. Those moments are also where you get the least experience. Maybe if that part could be more rewarding in the xp sense (and I have no idea how to implement that) and somehow de-emphasize the mindless clicking grind then I might be more likely to agree with your concern. I am certainly open to being convinced otherwise, but as of now I don't see this as an issue. I am open to any constructive debate on this (not that my opinion matters in the great whole :smileywink.

Khimaira Roe
Novice Image Designer, Ahazi