Image Designer Archive

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Nouva wrote:
Not at all, 4 hours a day x 30 days = 120 hours... casual gaming is anywhere from 2-4 hours a day, so on the extreme, one month to master a elite profession is not at all bad. In fact, SWG is more forgiving when it comes to level accomplishment. When EQ was in its first year of infancy, it took people 5+ months to reach the top of thier profession, I don't see the problem, Syz...

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Nouva wrote:
Considering the devs way back in betastated that for a power gamer an elite profession should take a MONTH and THREE MONTHS for a casual gamer, 11 days seems to be a "gift." Heck, it took me a month =)

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You know full well it won't take 11 days. It'll take a player like yourself however long it took you, plus another 60+ hours of forced interface waiting... which ends up being much longer than 60+ hours, due the difficulty of finding folks willing to stare at a blue screen with you, and having to compete against already masters.

It's still out of balance with almost every other elite profession, if balance is of any concern. Not to mention that changing an avatar's physical appearance isn't the type of play power gamers are interested in-- and those that usually are generally aren't power gamers. ID has nearly none of the power-gamer appeal, rewards and benefits-- as such, its play shouldn't be power gamer driven either. Not to say it should be masterable within an hour... but thetime and boredom involved in mastery is rediculous, to theconcensus of most everyone-- IDers, and many non-agenda-driven MID's included.

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Nouva wrote:
Not at all, 4 hours a day x 30 days = 120 hours... casual gaming is anywhere from 2-4 hours a day, so on the extreme, one month to master a elite profession is not at all bad. In fact, SWG is more forgiving when it comes to level accomplishment. When EQ was in its first year of infancy, it took people 5+ months to reach the top of thier profession, I don't see the problem, Syz...

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The comparison doesn't really fly, since EQ gameplay and levelling did not involve staring at a blue screen andwaiting for five months, or one, or three... just to be able to change hairstyles and nudge bodyshapes. There was actual active gameplay involved beyond clicking the ID designUI between waitsrepeatedly. SWG is more forgiving than other gamesonly because it presents lesser rewards and variety, and because there isn't much to do or get compared to other power-gamey games. Slapping power-gamer time sinks, along withgameplay that involves *not playing*,and providing very little back in return to boot, is not an appropriate game mechanic for the profession.

Fishing in FFXI is the absolute most boring profession ever. But even that involves much more variety and active play, involves doing different things at different levels, finding new fishing spots appropraite for one's current level, timing fishing with the moon phases, experimenting with different sorts of baits, lures, and poles for the appropriate level fish-- and amuch shorter aggregate levelling time. Even so it takes folks weeks and months to level up. Squaresoft had the foresight to know that the more boring the gameplay, the shorter the aggregate time should be, and the longer something should take, the more interactivity and strategy needs be ingrained as part of the design. And FFXI is one of the most power-gamey games around. The Squaresoft developers would not be caught dead implementing a profession whose levelling involved standing around waiting for timers to expire between clicks, and enforcing this wait on another player to boot. If you're going to be talking about power-gamey time sinks, then you better be talking about power-gamey rewards and power-gamey depth of play. Slapping a power-gamey time sink, withnone of the other associated facets,onto a profession that casual and social types tend to gravitate towards is a recipe for disaster.

Message Edited by Sundown6 on 06-10-2004 04:48 PM

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Nouva wrote:

I see your point Syz, but the problem isnt the timer, nor the xp gains. They (xp gains)are almoston par with dancers and musicians. A dancer in an average group of 5-10 bandmembers gets roughly 1 box every 17 hours.It can go by faster to about 1 box every 6-8 hours in a group of 15-20. This is using a afk dance/heal macro (using the best dance each new box)to cut down on "wait time." At the one box per 6-8 hours that is 128 hours to master the elite dancer professionand that doestinclude the entertainer to noviceclimb. Dancer is almost 200+ hours to master, and not all dancers go afk. These people (live dancers and musicians) do not complain, they accept it as part of thier work to become masters. The image design community both past and present have been so spoiled with fast gains and performance that it has become difficult to accept the new changes. Our profession, albight any other entertainer profession is not something to be rushed, but to be enjoyed.

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Agreed on the last part. But the timers and the forced waiting, and having to stare at a blue screen constantly, rather than enjoying the graphics of the world or being able to roleplay and socialize while you're levelling naturally... is what's making the profession unfun for most. Dancers don't need to stare at a screen that obscures their view between occasional clicks, norforce the same on customers. Even non-afk dancers are able to macro for long stretches, while they actively entertain and socialize... throwing in the occasional flourish to the tune of clapping crowds and steady XP.

Image Design currently involves none of that, and the mechanics and interfaceactually hurt socializing in more casesthan they do help. They're something a player wishes weren't there, and would love to get out of the way, so he can enjoy the game, roleplay, and socialize... rather than something a player actuallyuses to enhance both his experiences and others' the way Dancers' and Entertainers do.

When's the last time someone's asked for an ID so he can be entertained staring at a blue screen? IDers are currently folks that one gets something done with, and wants to be away from as quickly as possible, so he can get on with the game again.

Not to mention the fact that a savvy Dancer or Musician withgood friends can level the prof in much shorter time than you state. Couple days even. And even this excruciatingly boring method is lots more tolerable than the blue screen of image designing death for all involved.

Message Edited by Drygo on 06-10-2004 04:47 PM

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Nouva wrote:

I see your point Syz, but the problem isnt the timer, nor the xp gains. They (xp gains)are almoston par with dancers and musicians. A dancer in an average group of 5-10 bandmembers gets roughly 1 box every 17 hours.It can go by faster to about 1 box every 6-8 hours in a group of 15-20. This is using a afk dance/heal macro (using the best dance each new box)to cut down on "wait time." At the one box per 6-8 hours that is 128 hours to master the elite dancer professionand that doestinclude the entertainer to noviceclimb. Dancer is almost 200+ hours to master, and not all dancers go afk. These people (live dancers and musicians) do not complain, they accept it as part of thier work to become masters. The image design community both past and present have been so spoiled with fast gains and performance that it has become difficult to accept the new changes. Our profession, albight any other entertainer profession is not something to be rushed, but to be enjoyed.

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Message Edited by marqueA2 on 06-11-2004 02:08 PM