Image Designer Archive
Thread: Changed my mind, you might too!
Did Architects have their experience requirements raised when they got new schematics and capabilities [for example municiple structures]?
Jaela wrote:
Additional capabilities which I am certain will occur should be accompanied by higher exp requirements
As a matter of fact, the very last subject mentioned in the state of the profession thread, was indeed skill difficulty. While I do state my opinion in thinking it's too easy now, I also requested more opinions in that thread about it. I'm very open to discussion about it.
Just because I think it's too fast, doesn't mean that's what I'm telling the developers to fix. It's merely an opinion, and I can easily accept it if someone disagrees.
Okay, I'm an old school (as much as it can be) image designer. I grinded my butt off to be the first Master ID on Lowca and probably the game as well. We do not not need an exp increase. Why not? Because we contribute NOTHING to the game outside of an asthetic change for some players. Can we help remove TEFs? No. Can we change species or sex? No. Can we give a player anyhting that they cannot find within the wonderful character creation system? With the exception of female humans, and a few horn+hair combos for the zabraks, no. Can we give tattoos to non zabraks or place them anywhere aside from the face? No. Funky hair colors? None. These are issues that have existed since beta (in which, I admit I did not master ID because of the inability to to practice on oneself, and my infatuation with dance as well as unarmed lungeing kimos). Will these ever be addressed? I'm not optimistic. I went away from the game for about two months, I came back to a vastly improved interface and the same old bugs and exploits still about from the time of my departure.
Why should the experience be increased when we have no tangible effect upon the game? Image design will always be a nitch profession, and those mastering becaus eof the holos will drop the class as soon as they're told that they need to master chef or pikeman. As far as I'm concerned, the faster they mster the profession, the faster they're out of it. Add to this the above comments about our near uselessness previous to master level and you'll see that increased experience costs are absurd. It's easy to say that they should be increased while we're safe and snug with our master titles. But would any of you seriously want to grind out all those eyeshadow changes in order to get the Strand style of hair or the DoubleLoop Braid? Not to mention being able to anything for wookies or manipulating Mon spots?
Soon Mot
Master Image Designer
Lowca, Naboo, Theed-ish
Reiella wrote:
Why increase the time it takes to level up the profession? To get some respect and increased usefulness. If it only takes 3 hours, then 'Master Image Designer' means just as much as 'Novice Entertainer'.
With all due respect, why do you think that increasing the time it takes to master ID will have ANY effect on 'respect'? Do you really think all the pixel-killers out there will suddenly have respect for the 'make-up artists' and 'hair dressers' because it takes longer to master ID than BH?
Increased usefulness has nothing to do with time to mastery; ask any master Droid Engineer
JuJutsu wrote:
Reiella wrote:
Why increase the time it takes to level up the profession? To get some respect and increased usefulness. If it only takes 3 hours, then 'Master Image Designer' means just as much as 'Novice Entertainer'.With all due respect, why do you think that increasing the time it takes to master ID will have ANY effect on 'respect'? Do you really think all the pixel-killers out there will suddenly have respect for the 'make-up artists' and 'hair dressers' because it takes longer to master ID than BH?
Increased usefulness has nothing to do with time to mastery; ask any master Droid Engineer
And how can anything be useful if it just takes 3 hours to finish? Or how can any value > 3 hrs be given to it?
I do realize that because "Time to Master" < "x-level" = "Low Respect" does not imply that "Time to Master" > "Current Level" = "More Respect". That said, I would like to remove at least one situation that results in less respect. I'd also like to see actual USEFULNESS added to the profession (or at the least the concept as a whole). And seeing as how I'm a dancer/performer currently, I may hold a different slant on this due to an immense dislike of the AFK grinders in the performing professions, and how I see it hurting those professions. I also see that it would be very difficult to add actual 'content'/'use' (Beyond Appearance and some Hair-type styles) if the speed grind potential is there. Such abilities really wouldn't be fair to other professions, part of the balance equation needs to include time to master as well as skill point cost.
On a semi-related topic, I also hold very big reservations that we're ever going to have either issue addressed (properly or not), but seeing them revamp Creature Handlings experience methods and leveling schema does somewhat concern me for the potential of a change to Image Designers base line. That would really be a bad thing in my opinion, for just the reasons you stated before. Especially given the impression that it's the Masters who now want to see xping/grinding made harder.
Reiella wrote:
And how can anything be useful if it just takes 3 hours to finish? Or how can any value > 3 hrs be given to it?
I do realize that because "Time to Master" < "x-level" = "Low Respect" does not imply that "Time to Master" > "Current Level" = "More Respect". That said, I would like to remove at least one situation that results in less respect. I'd also like to see actual USEFULNESS added to the profession (or at the least the concept as a whole). And seeing as how I'm a dancer/performer currently, I may hold a different slant on this due to an immense dislike of the AFK grinders in the performing professions, and how I see it hurting those professions. I also see that it would be very difficult to add actual 'content'/'use' (Beyond Appearance and some Hair-type styles) if the speed grind potential is there. Such abilities really wouldn't be fair to other professions, part of the balance equation needs to include time to master as well as skill point cost.
On a semi-related topic, I also hold very big reservations that we're ever going to have either issue addressed (properly or not), but seeing them revamp Creature Handlings experience methods and leveling schema does somewhat concern me for the potential of a change to Image Designers base line. That would really be a bad thing in my opinion, for just the reasons you stated before. Especially given the impression that it's the Masters who now want to see xping/grinding made harder.
I won't argue withthe desirabilty ofutility. More useful is better.
Having said that I must disagree with your equation of usefulness and time spent. To be honest the 'Labor Theory of Value' doesn't seem to hold water, in SWG anymore than real life. Without becoming to much of a free-market ideologue I would argue that value comes from the creation of something that someone else wants and a rare supply of that something.
I will admit that Holo at least, if not the entire team, does have in mind a relationship between capability and skill points expended [thus his comments about bounty hunter capabilities and recent changes to creature handlers]. If the price of additional capabilities is additional skill requirements so be it [i.e. Novice ID requires master entertainer]. Especially if it would leave current Master ID's short of the requirements so that they would get to enjoy the new system as much as those of us who haven't hit master yet. Personally i think that would change the tune of many who think its a good idea to make mastery more difficult but I may just be too cynical.
As to respect, I think it is a pipe dream to think that the pixel-killers will develope a new-found respect for Image design if it takes longer to complete.
I don't think we can successfully argue for any changes in the game that will give us "respect." If you want the respect of a Shooter or a Thumper played by a testosterone-poisoned power-mad 14-year-old, you have to earn respect on his terms: in other words, shoot and thump and kill, preferably by beating the kid in single combat (though even if you do, he'll complain that you spammed an unfairspecial at him or used an exploit to win). The kind of player who can't respect other players as people is the kind of person whose respect I neither crave nor require.
As far as adding more utility to the image design profession, the only kind of utility those players have proposed for us is that we take a TEF for disguising them from the Bad Guys so we can eat laser for their crimes. That's how they want to respect us: as an inferior, a pawn, who sacrifices himself so the knight can skip away unscathed. Pardon me, but I'm not going to earn some kid's respect by taking bullets for him. If he's gone out of his way to make enemies, he can face them himself.
If you read -- just at random -- the bounty hunter boards, you will find that many Bounty Hunters want to be feared. They want the cantina to fall silent when they walk in, they want frightened players to evacuate out the back door, they want to hold the power of life and death in their hands so that we (any non-bounty-hunters)tremble and beg for mercy and give them free services because we horribly fear their elite uberness. That's the kind of respect they think this game is about: fear and control and domination. At the risk of painting players with a broad brush, that kind of player will never respect anyone else other than his own mad ego, and anyone who beats him in combat must have cheated (by definition).
Not all bounty hunters are like this. But some are. And if this is the respect they crave, they're playing for the wrong reasons. Furthermore, if you're hoping to earn their respect, you're in for a long wait. Me? I don't bother. Make our profession useful for what it is, give us services that people desire, and we will occupy a tiny niche of the game where we can make people happy with their avatars. Don't try to build the ID tree so we can get "respect" because from certain people, it will never happen.
Escia
I think its possible to gain respect without being a combat type. I personally have no trouble with respect issues when I am involved in Tailoring. Rarely does a respect issue occur. I am providing clothing that requires simple resources for the most part. I also have 3 different types of bio - clothing and find myself explaining how it works and what options might provide the best results,
As a tailor I dont believe I am considered equal to a BH, but I do feel I have more respect as a Tailor, It seems that if I expend resources somehow my service is more justifiable and the items can therefore be priced as such.
Perhaps the solution is to have a system that in order to add a tatoo ,,a special kit needs to be manufactured from special materials and then the ID using her coloring palettes and "magic" can take the kit and actually begin a tatooing process. However it is created, respect can be gained without being able to kill anything, of that i am certain.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am very frightened of bounty hunters. They come into the cantina with an LLC in hand, ask for a haircut, and then call me gay for giving it to them. And all I can do is lay down in the corner and cry.
I'm sorry bounty hunters. If only I'd realized sooner in my SWG career how L337 you are, and how pathetic I am for wanting to change lekku markings. 
Happy now?
"...the game has changed and we need to support changes that reflect these changes."
This entire forum is filled with random silly chit chat that only Image Designers could think up....I love it.
Ceraphim wrote:
"...the game has changed and we need to support changes that reflect these changes."
This entire forum is filled with random silly chit chat that only Image Designers could think up....I love it.
Was that supposed to be offensive?