Image Designer Archive
Thread: Why were Migration times not reduced?
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Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:58 pm
#1
Having been playing for less then a month I really don't have any connection to "the old days", but I can certainly appreciate the timer delays being reduced for Master Image Designers. Despite the fact that if a customer doesn't know exactly what they want, the timer is long over before a decision is made.
But, why does a stat migration still take 10 minutes? I'm not sure I agree that stat migration is available so early in the ID leveling -- if it is going to require an ID to do it... then it should require an *ID*, not someone just just leveled to Novice. That point aside, has any reason been given as to why a Master is not given any advantage when performing the longest function?
Sure some people like it, but there is still very little reason to go to Master ID. It seems that each clan has at least 1 person who is a Novice ID, so that they can get stat migrations. Performing those migrations in the same time as someone who took the time to work towards the profession. Someone who could care less about the job is just as as effective as someone who cares about the job. Should that really be?
Another point is price. Firstly, I don't do ID for the money -- I have leveled TKA and can make plenty of money there, and have just as much fun. But if someone takes the time to reach Master, if it is truely more special to be a Master over a Novice, then shouldn't a Master have reason for charging a little extra? By keeping the migration at 10 minutes, my prices compete with Novices who either (a) don't care or (b) charge little/no credits because they are more interested in grinding.
I'm all for Novices charging less, or nothing, for a stat migration. I've sent many a people who ask me for a migration to a leveling ID in the tent, so they can get the experience. I've quoted my price to customers who found it too high, so I pointed them to someone else I knew charged less (often times a leveling ID). They are doing exactly what they should -- charge a little less so they can get the experience. But should a Master, someone who has spent all that time, have the right to charge a little more and have the abilities to back it up!?
If you want a cheap migration ask the Novice who is doing it for free, but be ready to wait for 10 (maybe 15) minutes. If you want a migration *now*, then seek the Master who can do it for you in 2-5 minutes but might ask a little more.
Looking back on the other timers, which are all set to 0 now for Masters -- that is all well and good for someone who wants a few changes and knows *exactly* what they want. They same 2-4 minutes for a simple hair style change or skin color change. Is the ability to change a hair style in 0 minutes vs. 1 minute really worth all that grinding? I say no. Is the ability to perform a stat migration in 5 minutes vs. 10 worth it? It may be.
I'm not saying the timer for a migration should disappear completely, but why is it exactly the same? Here I am, a *Master* and I can't do any better then a *Novice*!? What's up with that?
But, why does a stat migration still take 10 minutes? I'm not sure I agree that stat migration is available so early in the ID leveling -- if it is going to require an ID to do it... then it should require an *ID*, not someone just just leveled to Novice. That point aside, has any reason been given as to why a Master is not given any advantage when performing the longest function?
Sure some people like it, but there is still very little reason to go to Master ID. It seems that each clan has at least 1 person who is a Novice ID, so that they can get stat migrations. Performing those migrations in the same time as someone who took the time to work towards the profession. Someone who could care less about the job is just as as effective as someone who cares about the job. Should that really be?
Another point is price. Firstly, I don't do ID for the money -- I have leveled TKA and can make plenty of money there, and have just as much fun. But if someone takes the time to reach Master, if it is truely more special to be a Master over a Novice, then shouldn't a Master have reason for charging a little extra? By keeping the migration at 10 minutes, my prices compete with Novices who either (a) don't care or (b) charge little/no credits because they are more interested in grinding.
I'm all for Novices charging less, or nothing, for a stat migration. I've sent many a people who ask me for a migration to a leveling ID in the tent, so they can get the experience. I've quoted my price to customers who found it too high, so I pointed them to someone else I knew charged less (often times a leveling ID). They are doing exactly what they should -- charge a little less so they can get the experience. But should a Master, someone who has spent all that time, have the right to charge a little more and have the abilities to back it up!?
If you want a cheap migration ask the Novice who is doing it for free, but be ready to wait for 10 (maybe 15) minutes. If you want a migration *now*, then seek the Master who can do it for you in 2-5 minutes but might ask a little more.
Looking back on the other timers, which are all set to 0 now for Masters -- that is all well and good for someone who wants a few changes and knows *exactly* what they want. They same 2-4 minutes for a simple hair style change or skin color change. Is the ability to change a hair style in 0 minutes vs. 1 minute really worth all that grinding? I say no. Is the ability to perform a stat migration in 5 minutes vs. 10 worth it? It may be.
I'm not saying the timer for a migration should disappear completely, but why is it exactly the same? Here I am, a *Master* and I can't do any better then a *Novice*!? What's up with that?
Reiella
Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:46 pm
#2
Why Stat Migration didn't get a Timer Reduction :
Stat Migration's timer is more to restrict potential abuse of rapid stat changes. It currently sits at twice the TEF duration, which places it rather soundly outside a single deviation of a TEF. Reducing the timer isn't something likly to happen until the Combat Rebalance due to the inherit effect it can have. *Sidenote, it is different from buffs, in that they don't want Stat Migration to just simply be "another buff".
Why Stat Migration is granted at Novice ID.
Image Designers suffered [like most professions] from clients only seeking out Masters. The trouble with Image Designers, however, is that they really need to practice on clients to get optimal experience [clients, or a click-bot...], which creates a rather nasty cyclic loop. So, the desired hard mechanic/combat function was given at Novice, so that non-Masters ID have a better chance at getting clients.
Justification to charge extra at Master.
The same justification Architect's use to charge more at master for furniture or structures. They're masters, and frankly if you want anything else an ID can provide, they can provide it.
Sidenote: Personal Opinion on Master Timer Reduction
I don't like it myself. It hurts the non-masters in getting clients -alot-.
Stat Migration's timer is more to restrict potential abuse of rapid stat changes. It currently sits at twice the TEF duration, which places it rather soundly outside a single deviation of a TEF. Reducing the timer isn't something likly to happen until the Combat Rebalance due to the inherit effect it can have. *Sidenote, it is different from buffs, in that they don't want Stat Migration to just simply be "another buff".
Why Stat Migration is granted at Novice ID.
Image Designers suffered [like most professions] from clients only seeking out Masters. The trouble with Image Designers, however, is that they really need to practice on clients to get optimal experience [clients, or a click-bot...], which creates a rather nasty cyclic loop. So, the desired hard mechanic/combat function was given at Novice, so that non-Masters ID have a better chance at getting clients.
Justification to charge extra at Master.
The same justification Architect's use to charge more at master for furniture or structures. They're masters, and frankly if you want anything else an ID can provide, they can provide it.
Sidenote: Personal Opinion on Master Timer Reduction
I don't like it myself. It hurts the non-masters in getting clients -alot-.
Uila
Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:45 am
#3
Rrowann wrote:
Migration times were not reduced because (I hypothesize) because with the last adjustment they made Stat Migrations the thing for Novice ID's to grind with and earn credits with. Though boring, a Novice ID can do it just as well as a Master ID, something that can't be said for every other ability in Image Design. Zillions of Novice ID's have had to give up clients to a Master ID because the client wanted a skin color change. Now they can get XP and social interaction at the same time, doing something just as well as a Master.
that sounds likely
PlayerKiller1
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:13 am
#4
I would also like to add that the population of Master ID's that are willing to sit in the tents to do stat migs, combined with the number of stat migs that need to be done, isn't enough to cover them. Many players complain that it is too hard to find any id who is willing to stat mig them as it is.... making it a master only skill would only p------- er..........anger more people.
TechnoCan
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:26 am
#5
About the number of ID to do migrations I can say that it should be a bit better now, since the new changes bring some more new ID and others return out of their hiding, thanks to the nicely decorated salons. You even see one or the other master there more often now.
About the fixed 10 minutes timer for the migration:
As stated above by several others it's about fairness between masters and non-masters. The idea behind this changes with reduced timers for master , except for the migrations and the higher xp for the migration is, to give masters the advantage of doing faster 'real' design work which adds to their larger variety of things to do, while those working on master get a chance to earn more xp with the hard work of migration, effectively reducing the time needed to master.
Like in this strange world called 'Real life' where the master picks the nice work, while the trainee has to do the harder work.
May the Force be with you all!
Technocan
About the fixed 10 minutes timer for the migration:
As stated above by several others it's about fairness between masters and non-masters. The idea behind this changes with reduced timers for master , except for the migrations and the higher xp for the migration is, to give masters the advantage of doing faster 'real' design work which adds to their larger variety of things to do, while those working on master get a chance to earn more xp with the hard work of migration, effectively reducing the time needed to master.
Like in this strange world called 'Real life' where the master picks the nice work, while the trainee has to do the harder work.
May the Force be with you all!
Technocan
Neige
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:15 am
#6
i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.
i'll be worried for all the entertainer tree in fact.
Mawie
Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:05 am
#7
Neige wrote:
i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.
i'll be worried for all the entertainer tree in fact.
Why's that? Lots of people actually like to play these professions because of how social they are. They are a nice break from killing things.
Metis_Onea
Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:26 am
#8
Neige wrote:
i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.
i'll be worried for all the entertainer tree in fact.
So.. we won't have people grinding it and dropping it anymore? 
What's wrong with that?
TechnoCan
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:51 am
#9
Metis_Onea wrote:
Neige wrote:i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.i'll be worried for all the entertainer tree in fact.So.. we won't have people grinding it and dropping it anymore?
What's wrong with that?
I can only dream about a cantina with no afk-makro-zombies myself, but for some reason I don't see this happening either. But I think Neige is concerned, that too few folks might see the need to even look into the very nice entertainer professions that at the moment give atleast some very reliable locations to find some of them... well actually a darn lot of them, but very few that are not afk :/
I'm not really worried about too few IDs and entertainers after publish 10. Actually if you look for some entertainment to get rid of those 400 bf that have somehow magically accumulated in your head (stoopid pikets
) there are only a few locations where you can be sure to find what you need: Cnet, Theed, Mining outpos on dant, maybe Endor smugglers outpost, too. All the other cantinas are more or less deserted all the times. With fewer Entertainers it cannot get any worse either. What about us IDs? Well, those IDs that 'grind' throug it, don't really care about answering any ID-requests since they are usually too busy to get through with it. Most seem to 'contract' someone to id with and with the new xp on migration they will be done with it faster now...
And once they are done, they usually drop the skills very fast. Well, that's the grinders, that's how they think they need to play. It's not my part to critizise or comment on that here.
But it means that without grinder we as a comunity won't really loose much. It will be as easy or difficult to find one of us with or without them, I think.
I only hope we (the comunity and the devs) can find a solution to make all of us happy again.
May the Force be with you all!
Technocan
Rrowann
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:42 pm
#10
Migration times were not reduced because (I hypothesize) because with the last adjustment they made Stat Migrations the thing for Novice ID's to grind with and earn credits with. Though boring, a Novice ID can do it just as well as a Master ID, something that can't be said for every other ability in Image Design. Zillions of Novice ID's have had to give up clients to a Master ID because the client wanted a skin color change. Now they can get XP and social interaction at the same time, doing something just as well as a Master.
Rrowann
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:10 pm
#11
Neige wrote:
i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.
I don't worry about ID post-hologrind. People loved and stuck with ID well before we had any consistent clientele or "purpose" in game. People will be ID's post-hologrind.
IssogiKa
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:23 pm
#12
Neige wrote:
i'lll be more worried about the number of image designer after patch 10 hits, putting a end to hologrind.
i'll be worried for all the entertainer tree in fact.
I am a dancer/ID/TKM.....and that will not change now or after the holo grind ends. I like those professions. I choose them for a reason.
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