CUEmu - Thread Posts

Baelin_Radiant

Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:38 am

A BIT OF AN INTRODUCTION...

Asheron's Call was my first experience in the world of the MMORPG. One aspect that I liked about Asheron's Call was the steep advancement curve. There were 126 levels of advancement that were exponential (each level requiring nearly twice the amount of experience as the previous one needed). Players, being the crafting lot that they are, devised a way to speed up the advancement with "rank chains" and "combat macros", but the system was still good by design. What was good about this long path to advancement was the time and effort required to reach a high standing. Without trying to circumvent the system (using a quick level trick), players had a long road ahead of them. I realize that a lot of the newer MMORPGs have recently started adopting a lower threshold where players can "max out" within a shorter time frame, but is this better in the long run?

I left Asheron's Call to play Asheron's Call 2. At the time, this was a major mistake on my part. Asheron's Call 2 was still in it's infancy, so I gave it plenty of leeway for growing pains. However, the game dynamic was flawed at the core. Players only needed to advance 50 levels before maxing out. After that, there was very little to do and even less reason to continue playing. Reaching level 50 wasn't that difficult. One month of die-hard playing and you were there. There are only so many times you can do the same quests over and over before it becomes pointless to even log on. Sure, there was player interaction, but no action. There was PvP, butit becamepredictable and pointless. It wasn't long before players abandoned ship in a mass exodus and the servers were merged to keep existing players from feeling isolated. A lack of fresh content that didn't become routine and something for players to look forward to could have saved the game. Players asked the developers for months to give us these things. The developers ignored us. They would chime in with things like, "Oh, but we've got other great things planned for you!", or "We have a vision!", but in the end, we never stuck around. Last time I visited the AC2 forums, little had changed from when I left. They never learned.

I played Asheron's Call 1 for over a year and was only at level 80. It might seem like I was more than have way to level 126 but, as I pointed out earlier, the system increased exponentially. I was still less than half way to reaching the highest level. There were many places to go, quests to do, items to collect, and more importantly... ...a goal to look forward to. Leveling. Some quests were limited to the level you were. The quests just didn't have a minimum level you had to be; they also had a maximum level. Only players that fell between the min and max level could visit some places and do quests. This kept content special and personal. The biggest disadvantage with Asheron's Call was the dated graphics. Chunky polygons and barren landscapes did little to supply immersion or ocular fulfillment. I wish they had taken Asheron's Call and gave it the graphics from Asheron's Call 2, but that is not what happened. Unable to go back to the rudimentary graphics of AC1, and unwilling to bear the futility and boredom of AC2, I ventured out and started playing SWG.

...AND THEN THERE'S SWG!

So. Here I am. I like SWG. I'm use to playing games that follow a medieval theme, but I'm a fan of Star Wars. SWG has good points, bad points, and issues that are evolving. For the most part, I'm enjoying the game. Everyone has their own ideas of what should be in the game or areas we'd like to see changed. You can't please everyone, but I think SOE tries to.

The other day, I was talking to someone that was thinking of leaving the game. They wanted to try out another game for a couple of months but said they may be back when the space expansion comes out. I asked the person if they were willing to give up everything they had already accomplished and risk having to start from scratch when they returned. This is, of course, assuming they would not be able to pick up where they left off (some accounts may be re-activated within a certain time frame). This person answered, "No big deal. It wouldn't take me long to rebuild my character back to where it is now and get back everything I own." The reply, while truthful, startled me a bit. This is true. Technically, most players could leave SWG, loose their characters and everything they own (structures, weapons, armor, quest trophies and loot, et al) and come back a couple of months later and get it all back relatively quickly.

Reaching a master level in any elite profession is easy, once you know the system. The credits you earn from doing missions while leveling a combat profession can easily buy back everything you lost (assuming you weren't a multi-millionaire when you left). Any quest items or loot is easily attainable. If anything, you'll advance quicker than you did the first time because you'll know what to avoid and what works better. This capability has probably made a lot of people comfortable with the idea of leaving and coming back. There's no real penalty. I'm not sure SOE is aware of this, but the system currently lets players take months off, come back, rebuild, and be right back where they left off.

Why is this bad for SOE?

Well, if a player honestly believes that there is no penalty for leaving, then they are willing to go try out other games. The other games may get them hooked and they won't come back to SWG. I know of a few that went off to try Eve Online but had planned on coming back to SWG after a few months. Now,they have no intentions of returning to SWG. From what I hear, Eve Online has a very slow advancement curve that requires months of dedicated playing to reach full fruition. This is compelling the players to stay since there is always "something to look forward to" and a strong "but I've too much invested to leave" way of thinking. Many other games are like this as well.

How could SWG compel players to stay?

Well, in Asheron's Call, there were many items that came and went. If you were a collector (or pack rat), then there were many items that were only available for a short time. Rare trophies, wearable items, odd armor or weapons, etc.. Having these items afforded the owner a certain prestige. Sure, some items were sold to newer players, but that didn't take away from the value of them. They were rare and highly sought. SWG has a couple of things like this. The Wookie Life Day Globes, for example. Maybe there will be more items like this. I hope so.

Another legacy item was titles. There were statues and monuments in Asheron's Call that recorded the names of players that were involved in pivotal battles that had taken place. Some of the rare items I spoke of were only attainable for a short time from periodic events and quests. These were "no drop / no give" so possessing them made it obvious that "you were there!" You could wield a special weapon, or don a particular item of clothing and it was a beacon to all bystanders that you were a legacy player.SWG has badges. Some players will be noted as having taken part in the "Cries of Alderaan". This is good. However, I think the game should have more items that are "no drop / no give" that are only attainable for defined periods of time. One example is the special goggles for players that bought the deluxe edition of the game. Another is the "rebreather" from the Genosian cave. The rebreather can only be held in your top level pack, or in your safety deposit box.

NOTE:Ironically, the rebreather (though an oral device) is flagged by the game as "eyewear." Apparently, SOE flagged this device with the same tags as the special goggles so that it possess the same properties (no drop / no give) without having to assign new tags. Unfortunately, the rebreather is not visible to others when equipped so it is not a status symbol. If I were to imagine what it would look like when worn, I'd picture the breathing devices used by Qui-gon Jinn and Obi Wan when they visited the underwater Gungan city in episode one.

SOE had already started to trickle in a few items that are "personal" or rare. I hope they continue along this vein and make more offerings that are limited to special one time events. Having these items gives a unique quality to players that stick with the game. They are rewards for longevity. They are status symbols we can't flaunt and tokens of pride for past accomplishments.

Possessions versus professions?

Are trophies and rare items enough? The other half of the equation is your character. Some people may not care about a few baubles, but your character is more personal. As I pointed out with Asheron's Call; when I made the decision to leave, I had to realize that I wasn't coming back. The extreme amount of time I invested in my character was going to be washed away. Going back was not an option since I was going to be back at square one with an overwhelming path ahead of me. When I left, I left for good. Getting back to level 80 (without using a cheat to circumvent the system) meant another year of dedicated playing. While possible, it was disheartening to think of having to do it all again. SWG, however, is hardly comparable. Start a new account and within a month you're maxed. I can be an elite anything in one month (other than Jedi). I have no risk if I decide to leave for a few months since I can get right back to where I was with little effort. Is this wise for SOE?

My character is not unique. I can erase him, start a new character, rebuild himwithin a very short period of time, andthis new character will be just like my old one. I'm not "linked" to my current character. I've no reason to fear loosing him. Subsequently, I have no special attachment to him. One or two baubles. A title linked to an event or two that is lost among a long list of POIs that is open to everyone else. He isn't an example of hard work or time invested. He isn't a symbol of longevity or a tribute to commitment. He's disposable.

Does SOE really want us all feeling that are characters are disposable?

Does SOE want us feeling that we could easily walk away from SWG and come back (or not) after we play other games?

One year from now, I want to have a character that new players will look at and say, "Wow, he's been here since the beginning.Look at all the accolades he has. Oh, and he has a {insert rare item here}. Boy, I wish I was around at that time."

If anyone from SOE is reading, please give my character identity. Help me to make him unique. Let me feel like I have something to be proud of and something to risk loosing. I'm investing a lot of time in this game. I'm sticking with it through the awkward initial months after a release. I'm dedicating while core dynamics are changing. I'm bearing with unavoidable difficulties and showing my allegiance to SOE. Give me something back for my commitment and investment. I'm not asking for much. Just a little token here and there to give me presence (presents) for my perseverance.

Truisms are true, hold on to that! The solid world exists, its laws do not change. Stones are hard, water is wet, objects unsupported fall towards the earth's centre. With the feeling that he was speaking to O'Brien, and also that he was setting forth an important axiom, he wrote: Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

Darhan

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:23 am

#2

Good read! I agree with alot of your points, and I hope that SOE will ponder some of them as well.

Sarkime

Master heavy Swordsman

Teras Kasi Master~ Master Brawler

TashunkaSapa

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:12 am

#3

It would be nice if SOE really did listen, but the fact is they usually don't. They trumpet their acquiescence to major $#!+storms (like vendor bags and the crafting changes) as some sign that they are "working with the community" but I've seen firsthand how many of my /bug reports on TC have gone ignored and how many times CSR tickets I've submitted have received no helpful response.

In short, SOE customer service sucks the big one. I've done customer service for the world's largest software company and I can tell you firsthand that it's the most important part of keeping your existing customers. SOE's attitude seems to be "we can always get another customer to replace you" and I'm sure they will. But loyal customers are hard to come by, difficult to lose and impossible to replace. And if I don't start seeing some improvement in the next couple of months I don't have a problem taking my money elsewhere.

I don't need shiny distractions, SOE. I want some indication that I'm important as a customer.

Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri)

Imperial Pilot Ace/Master Smuggler/Master Bounty Hunter

Master Explorer. Force-Sensitive. HERO OF TATOOINE.

Ceraphim

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:30 am

#4

well said

Srirzosh

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:51 am

#5

I loved AC1, it took me over 3 years to have two 126+ characters. I've been playing SWG for 5-6 months and have mastered 10 professions, and I've not been doing the 10 hour plated tusker fellows that I was used to with AC1

I'm not quite sure why all these new games seem to pander to the 2-3 months maximum to "complete" your character. Heh, when AC1 was released the devs publicly stated they didn't think *anyone* would ever hit 126 (it took almost 2 years for the first lvl 126 character to appear).

- Srirzosh -
"Grinder of professions and defiler of wookies"
Imperial Colonel (MOF)

awentwor

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:59 am

#6

Baelin_Radiant,

What can I say but, "Well Said!" I would indeed like some special items to show events that I have participated in, but I would like for your place of residence to also be a place you can drop them. I would love nothing more than to have a trophy wall in my house... a place where a wookie life-day orb can set next to a holocron on a coffee table. Something where people that come to visit can sit in awe of the rare things they have never seen before.

I'm going to expand on what you said by listing another problem I see with SOE: the individuals who constantly violate the Terms of Service without the worry of disciplinary action by Sony. I'm talking about the afk looters in Borgle-Bat caves, the individuals who use exploits found in early release Tuskan rifles to hit people for 4k mind damage per shot, and those people who are now deathblowing Jedi back to Initiate levels by camping cloning centers.

I, like many others, have done our best to report exploiters of the game. Why is it that SOE's response to every ticket I submit on the matter is the same? *They are aware of the problem and are working toward resolving the issue*. If you push the envelop with them questioning their response, you get a CSR candid response stating that SOE does not discuss their disciplinary policies with players.

I'm sorry... but there shouldn't be any discussion at all on this subject. The terms of service clearly states that exploiting is an offense that results in the banning of the account. I don't see this happening, and frankly I believe it is ruining the game. It ruins quests to get that *rare skill tape* since there are 5 people constantly in the borgle-bat caves on a daily basis afk looting. It makes PvP worthless since it only takes 1 shot from one of these Tuskan rifles to incap / kill you from ranges of 64m.

SOE needs to get on the ball before more and more people see that they will not be disciplined for exploiting the game in order to get ahead. I don't find taking advantage of exploits fun in the least, and a number of other honorable players feel the same way. Unfortunately, as more people have these exploits used against them, inevitably they will start using them also. I should hope that SOE doesn't want SWG to be known as the game of exploits.

Kypp Darksider
|| Teras Kasi Master || Swordsman || Doctor ||

Arcaine2

Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:01 am

#7

Very nicely done.

I do believe that most of the developers had come from EQ and therefore wanted to avoid a duplication of that game - heading in a direction 180 degrees out.

Just as Asheron's Call - EQ had some good developement implemented that SOE is just now going to incorporate into SWG.

Non Static Dungeons - you or your group have your own adventure. Not like the dozens of initial dungeons that incorporate competetion - and the dreaded ninja and/or campers looting.

Loot notifications - although I wish harvesting would not be one of the notifications I do not need to see 20 peeps harvesting meat bone and hide on every mob.

Quests - Quests - Quests and Quests - The aspect of all games I love to play involve quests. EQ became boring and redundant cause you did the same dungeons over and over and over. SWG needs more Theme parks - dungeons - and everyday quests - A rare NPC hidden away in some dark corner of Talus that sends you on an adventure that may take you days to complete yet nets you a rare and unique item specific to your class or profession. Have the NPC's spawn at new locations every publish. Now you havereason to visit Rori.

I agree with you on the profession challenge - look at some people who have mastered all 32 in the matter ofa few months looking for the Jedi slot. There is littel reason to group in SWG - there is little reward for grouping in SWG for the group as a whole. Even increasing the MOBS hams to 300k forces grouping to an extent but with little to show for it. A few scales a pearl that only one member can have from a Kryat. Then tensions flare and greed takes precedent.

They wanted social intermingling at starports and shuttles - the true way to social intermingling is rewards give us a reason to be together and stay together if they really want that type of interfacing to transpire.

I created 2 accounts so I could do combat and hunt with one - craft and make credits with the other. Using both to train each other for AP xp. An expensive alternative and I too will wait a little longer for some positive changes - the corellian corvette dungeon is one. This however, right now is like a bandaid on a gaping wound.

Arcaine my game name
I have no idea what I want to be when my toon grows up.

Arcaine2

Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:02 am

#8