Game Guides Archive
Thread: Friday Feature Economy Stats April 30th
from what I am gathering here, no plans to adjust the economy are slated. That our whacked out system shld correct itself?
People charging anywhere from 20k to 100k+ for weapons and armor is the norm? Even tho been playing since day 1 and the most I accumulated is 300k? Of course if I ran missions all day or harvested resources and sold them I am sure I could gather cash, the point is, there are way far too many people with more cash than they know what to do with, so it doesnt hurt them to drop 3 mil on an item if they really want it.
You dont have any money sinks that help the casual player and start to bring down the rich. Try adding expensive pieces into the game for decorations or possibly transport. The majority of a server should not be the millionaires, they should be the elite class, but anyone with time on their hands can make cash runs and be solvent within a day or 2.
Read some of the trade forums Holo and see what kind of money is circulated. I have never seen a society where the elite outnumber the poor or middle class, yet that is what I see on SWG daily. The ones that are financially strapped are the 'casual' gamers who this game was supposedly to cater to, yet they seem to be the minority and now hurt by this system most of all.
Can you tell us the reason why a loot item like Giant Dune Kimo Scales are so limited from entering the economy. Y'all have artificially inflated the price of RIS armor by limiting the creation of this armor by having only 1 Scale drop per month. Where is the Fun in that? As a Master Armorsmith I have to stockpile dozens of rare resources to make an armor I have lil hope of making ( we wont get into the fact that RIS is substandard...lower stats than Comp , even if it is lighter, buffs negate that...ok, I did get into it a bit). The 1 piece I have made sold for 5.5 million creds, who can afford to use that to fight in???
Just my opinion on 1 thing I dont find fun about the game
Not all that slowly--we went in and zapped the cash out of accounts that seemed to be totally ridiculous. But a lot of the duped cash is spread out at this point, since it was used in transactions. So probably everyone has SOME counterfeit credits in their possession at this point. That's why going the route of running at a deficit is a better way to go for now. The best way to track this, much as I hate to say it, is to watch the value of SWG credits on eBay. Since we closed the duping loophole, the price has more than tripled.
I never did understand the developers, of any product, having a problem with ebay sales.
Before I go into the question, Mr. Koster, I just want to say that this is the most interesting feature I have seen to date. Thanks a ton for letting us see some of the insider goodies!
The question I have is --- why do you hate ebay sales?
I understand there are legal ramifications? However, all I have ever heard is that this is the sale of intellectual property of SOE. Still, if people are allowed some freedom with accounts and others sales there, wouldn't this promote some increased revenues for SOE inboth the short and long terms?
For example: a player sells his Jedi slot account for $2500. I'm sure it doesn't matter to you if this person makes-out on a deal. But doesn't it make more sense for the account to sell, therefore the account remains openand payed for, rather than closing the account outright and getting nothing in return?
This is something I've never understood, or seen you speak about. I sure would like to learn the reasoning behind the attitude with ebay
Holocron wrote:
Secondly, DFH, the power law distribution isn't about game balance. There isn't a single economy in the entire world that is "fair" in the way you propose. I'll say upfront that I am at a total loss as to how make sure that the game economy is "fair" in the way you suggest;I'd also note that fairness in the way you seem to asking for it would also mean that skill could not result in making more money than someone unskilled. And that seems antithetical to "fun game" in a lot of ways. It's certainly true that currently some professions tend to accumulate cash and others do not--it's a worthwhile exercise to build a graph showing where money enters (via which broad profession groups) and where it exits and accumulates.
That sounds pretty short sighted Holo.
Think about the addition of speeder repair costs.Those costs hit almost everyone and certainly hurts the lower-end players far more than the uber rich. This would be the real-world equivalent to a Food Tax. You kind of brushed off the posibility of a "fair" economy in the sense that the economy is either absolutly free market corruption or entirely artificial to maintain "fairness." That ignores the huge possibility of taxing the incredibly wealthy in a way that doesn't hurt the low-end players. If a system of graduated property tax were instituted instead, even on liquid assets alone, you would have pulled more money out of the economy and it would have been a burden shouldered by those who are actually capable of bearing it.
I know they won't do this, but at least don't pretend its impossible. That insults our intelligence.
"It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom — Free Trade." -Communist Manifesto
Happy May Day Everybody! Hug your favorite communist!
LeBob wrote:
Holocron
I was wondering if you have the ability to track credits that are stored in vendors and especially PA hall deeds, and if so do these graphs take into account these numbers. I am sure there are quite a few players that use PA hall deeds as safety deposit boxes for the credits since if their duping account is banned they could have an alt on admin in a structure with a PA hall deed laying on the floor with any amount of credits stored in it.[?]
thanks
Holocron wrote:
...
I'm glad to see the cashflow problem was dupers and that the game is slowly bleeding thatfalse cashback out.
Not all that slowly--we went in and zapped the cash out of accounts that seemed to be totally ridiculous. But a lot of the duped cash is spread out at this point, since it was used in transactions. So probably everyone has SOME counterfeit credits in their possession at this point. That's why going the route of running at a deficit is a better way to go for now. The best way to track this, much as I hate to say it, is to watch the value of SWG credits on eBay. Since we closed the duping loophole, the price has more than tripled.
...
If I understand this correct, we have NOW a heavy deflation, so credits will become worth more and more, UNTIL you decide to put more credits in game, so we will get an inflation, and my hard earned credits will becomeworth nothing.
I for me dont like banana-republic monetary policy. I like stable money.
There should be an equilibrium between incoming credits and outgoing credits.
I agree with Holo. I don't see how you can make an economy any other way and it still be an economy. What rule was it that if you redistribute all wealth evenly, it will inevitably be right back where it all was before, because of people?
Assume for a second that this was a closed economy with no missions and no drains. All money that can ever exist is already in the game. So what will happen? Well, onethingthat will happenis 99% of all money will still go to that 1%. But on top of that now that bottom 99% have no way of getting any money unless that 1% dediced to be generous and give them jobs. But of course they will always make a profit from what you're doing, or they wouldn't hire you. So, it ends up exactly the same as now only your income is decided by another player instead of the game. At least right now there is security with the NPC mission system which wouldn't exist if your only possible income was from other players. But you can also get money by trading with other players, which is how I got nearly all the money I have, and I am BH/Ranger.
Tavian_McMaster wrote:
Think about the addition of speeder repair costs.Those costs hit almost everyone and certainly hurts the lower-end players far more than the uber rich. This would be the real-world equivalent to a Food Tax.
Just to remark on your speeder comment:
Repair costs only hit players who have speeders, which I don't think is nearly a requirement as you make it out to be. It hits players with swoops hardest, landspeeders the least, and speederbikes in the middle. A landspeeder's decay is about 1/5th that of a swoop, making it much more suited for those "lower-end" players you're worried about. Vehicles get you to missions faster, eases travel costs (since you can drive instead of taking a planetary shuttle), and have that insubstantial "cool" factor (especially the AV21). If the cost of repair outweighs those benefits, you shouldn't use a vehicle, simple as that. Get a mount or walk.
Holocron wrote:
Just a couple of quickie comments. Glad to see so many folks enjoyed the article...
Secondly, DFH, the power law distribution isn't about game balance. There isn't a single economy in the entire world that is "fair" in the way you propose. I'll say upfront that I am at a total loss as to how make sure that the game economy is "fair" in the way you suggest;I'd also note that fairness in the way you seem to asking for it would also mean that skill could not result in making more money than someone unskilled. And that seems antithetical to "fun game" in a lot of ways. It's certainly true that currently some professions tend to accumulate cash and others do not--it's a worthwhile exercise to build a graph showing where money enters (via which broad profession groups) and where it exits and accumulates.
i am speaking in very very broad generalities in that there are two basic models for economies, capitalistic and socialistic. in a capitalistic economy how an individual does in the economy is based on how hard that person works in repsect to bettering themselves and educating themselves coupled with a desire to succeed. in a capitalistic economy success is rewarded by by wealth. they are based on the individual having responsibilities for oneself.
in a socialist economy everyone is equal (theoretically). hardwork is rewarded with a pat on the back, if that, and the knowledge that the folks that arent doing so well will benefit from your labours. in practice there is no incentive for the individual to do more than their share of the load to qualify for whatever handout of basic living that the economy authorizes. socialism promotes sloth and laziness in those that do only enough to get buy and in no way encourages anyone to become something more than what they have to be to survive.
how does this translate into SWG and game worlds?? i think that if i just draw anexample of a socialisteconomy in action you will get the idea of why no government in histroy has ever succeeded at socialism. it is a simple analogy at that. If SWG was based on socialism where everyone is equal an ancient canyon krayt would drop 10 credits (i picked an arbitrary number) and the meatlump would drop 10 credits as well. what then is the incentive to hunt ancient krayts when you can get the same 10 credits by going after a meatlump?? when you loot that 10 credits9 of them goto the government as a person only needs one credit at any time to get by. the other 9 are handed out to the individuals who did not go on the krayt hunt or the meat lump hunt beacuseit is mandadated that everyone is equal and no one needs more than 1 credit at a time. over time those that do hunt the krayts and even the meatlumps realize that putting forth the effort to do so is pretty dumb since if they dont go they STILL get the 1 credit everytime a monster dies and is looted. before long the economy fails because no one is working. that was thebasic cause of the collapse of the sovietunion in a nutshell. there was no incentive for anyone to do more than the basic minimum
the reality of the world is there are ALWAYS going to be those that will beg because they are either too lazy to learn or too lazy to work for their credits. i cant count how many people that beg me for credits for a shuttle ticket and i point them to a mission terminal. the responses are invariably either its too much work or too hard or i dont have the time and you just giving them to me is easier...
this is not to say i dont have compassion for those truly in need and are in trouble. those that i find i help. but i CANNOT abide those that would use my good graces and genrosity as a hammock to ride through their lives at the expense of my hardwork. it is not difficult to make money in swg in fact it is far far far harder NOT to make money and lots of it. the only fair economy is one modeled on a capitalistic model where your work and effort determine how well you succeed. the responsible and adult thing to do with people who need assistance is to help them find work not hand them shopping carts and card board boxes to sleep in...