Game Guides Archive
Thread: Is buffing ruining gameplay?
Ryche_Mykola
Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:58 am
#40
Also, if we are comparing to the movies:
Empire would never exist, 1 or 2 Super Battle Droids from the Trade Federation would have won the whole war in Episode 2.
EnZoFiRe
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:33 pm
#41
Is buffing ruining the game?? NO. There are things that cannot be done by a single player be he (or she) buffed or not. And that is the way it should be. To the solo player buffs represent an advantage that is bought and paid for with credits that are earned by performing tasks that provide the credits that buy the buffs. Get it?? It's call "game immitating life". What a concept. As to those that say dump the buffs and join a group, why should I?? I am a Bounty Hunter and in the game I work alone or with a partner. If I wanted my game play to consist of "guild level" raids only, I would still be playing EQ. Here is a thought; If you don't wantto use buffs to play this game, DON'T. It's Ok by me.
VegitoX
Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:23 pm
#42
Def. a mixture between the Buffs and the Armor.
You cant really say it's one w/o the other. I can clearly remember a time that players prayed for Encumberrance slices, now, they want Effectiveness. Why? Because with a Doctor's buff, you needn't worry about anyencumberrances. So not only can you Spam special offensive attacks, but you are also working with Max Defense with 80% armor as well.
Tavias
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:24 pm
#43
The big problem I have with buffs is that they make getting prepared for combat unnecessarily annoying. Having to go through the ritual of getting buffed everytime adds nothing positive to the game, it's just one frustrating aspect of playing. This hurts pvp more than anything, since pvp is largely about spur of the moment engagements. If it wasn't so much trouble to get and stay prepared, we'd probably see a lot of pvp engagements. As it is now, it's just too much of an annoyancefor most people to stay always ready for pvp (myself included).
When you look at the balance implications, it's only one factor. Buffs alone actually don't pose that much of a balance issue. Yes, with buffs you get specials for free, but I don't see how that is all that bad. The original system, where you kill yourself using your own specials, was completely flawed at the fundamental level. That system should have never made it into a retail game, but it did. I simply can't stress enough how big of a mistake it was to use the current HAM system. It's the foundation that the entire game is built on, and it's horribly flawed. It is somewhat nice to see someone try something new (deviating from the standard health-mana-stamina system), but in this case it didn't work at all, and they should have realized and fixed that a long time ago. Of all the things that keep the game from really being successful, this is definitely number one.
The real balance problem with buffs (among many many other balance issues) is when you combineit witharmor. The major implication of this is trivializing almost all pve (except for the new stuff, which has major issues of their own, which I won't go into here). For pvp, the overpowered buff+armor combination has made it that only a few professions can be competitive.
So the short answer is that yes, buffs are a problem, but they're only one of the problems.
caern_farstar
Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:59 pm
#44
akaDEATH wrote:
Poor Babys
Its people like you that are runing the game..... no matter what changes SOE makes there is always going to be someone Crying about it.
I coldnt agree with you more...
Liquidlce
Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:10 pm
#45
Few points to think about here :
1. not everyone(myself included) enjoys the "you need to be group to do anything" way of playing.. This leads to people with loot macros only getting loot and well , forced to be with people can get annoying.
2. People like to draw lines from SWG to StarWars Movies like "doctors weren't in the movies buffing people". To this I say , fine make it so my republic blaster 1 hit kill stormes like Han Solo did.. Seems most things in the movies were one or 2 nicely places shots away from being dead..
3.One major problem with whinners is that this is what you do.. Whin on the boards while the majority are enjoying the game and playing , not getting their side heard and wind up getting screwed in the end..
Finally , if you take away buffs people(alot of people) that enjoy them or selling them will be without something that gives them enjoyment and no way to get it back.. If you leave it beyou NERF BUFF whiners can decide not to use them and go about playing the way you want to while allowing everyone else the game play style they choose/like....Before you start bitching about the way you want the game to be so that it makes you happy think about all the people that don't want what you do.. You can go unbuffed now.
Xanevae
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:15 am
#47
Izhozz wrote:
Is buffing ruining gameplay? YES!!!
Wanna grind a crafting pro? Well first you have to get buffed and do some Jantas and then buy resources to grind with.. Buff,buff,and more buffs.This game is ONLY ABOUT BUFFS! Why should I buff myself when im not even sure IF I can play for 2-3 hours? 2222 in Pikeman went fairly easy without buffs,but thats just about it...IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME THAT IS NOT STAR WARS ITS THE DOCTORS WITH THEIR BUFFS! WHAT ABOUT THE MOVIES?!!??! DID HAN SOLO WEAR 80% COMP ARMOR AND WAS BUFFED? NO!
GWAAAAH!!!!! NERF TEH BUFF!
I'd agree with that. A lot of things in this game detract from the real star wars feel that many would expect, and buffs are one of them, although less visual than things like zabrak being EVERYWHERE.
I havn't been playing SWG for long, but i did notice in recent update that peoples complaints about poison and disease being over pwoered was... A BUFF!!! i hope this wasn't whhere buffs came from, people maon that the game is too hard or there is little to aid player in taking down lage enemies, or to get an extra edge in PVP, so buffs where introduced.
I must admit i dont always get buffed when playing as other have described, I can still go to dant or dath with a little help from my CM/DR wife and take on most things, night sisters included. But buffs do seem to over rule the game, especialy PVP. I read an earlier post about being able to take part in PVP unbuffed when imps/rebs run into town and start causing trouble. Now what you get is a few people try to fight back but most people just stand their ignoring the combat and carrying on with what they where doing, like dancing, chatting or shopping. After all if your not buffed, why just get yourself killed over and ovr again trying to fight back.
my feeling on the matter is:
You shouldnt need a buff to partisipate in all aspects of the game (and have fun doing it).
with the currant balance of buffs or alternatives, its not wholey possible.
AraDanBynobi
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:16 am
#48
Buffing is a very strange thing when it's as overdone as it is in this game. Its getting to the point where the Devs may as well havejust charged 10K credits perday -IMPERIAL TAXATION - and just givenus fast recover and high HAM by visiting the Medcentre and touching a BUFF BOOTH for nothing.
Itdoes make grouping useless because you have to face it; gamers are greedy lil SOB's not just for the credits and loot, but for there time and XP. Everyone wants to be the best, everyone wants to be the hero. Its only natural.
MMORPGs are all about grinding for most (actually all)of the players in one form or another, even if they won't admit it. Psychologically its been prooven that the grind and loot aquisition is the primary reason people keep coming back. BUT along with that is the Social element that many sign up for to begin with.
People whoignore grouping as valid play because they are scared of ninja looting are the typethat should solo anyway they are at that end of the gaming spectrum were they have mapped out there expectations for there gaming before acknowledgeing the status of things, kinda sad. An example of what I mean are the people who get irrate because there were no docs about for buffing when they were ready to be buffed... the centre of the universe type gamer. Funnily enough it seems the people worried about being ninja looted and out damaged are the same people who do it... how would you know you've been ninja looted if you weren't right there trying to get the loot first yourself?? And if in a group you can see who took what. True -Fairness left in the hands of anonomous players is just not going to happen, but is enforcement of looting rights in a group all the more fair, or just fair to the elites? Yet again making the need for super weapons and template characters like an arms race among players.
Grouping is very fun when your up for some interaction, and if your not out for loot, the XP should be enough. The fun of having a multitude of professions (and not the 'favouritetemplate of the month') around you, tosupport you in variousways, is what the game was designed for.Its an RPG, at least I thought it was, but its becoming very much a FPS type setup where people don't play a character they play a perfectly honed template. Taking all the GameWorlds rules and exploiting them like a twisted game in itself, just so you have exactly the best character the rules allow.The interdependacy is lost because we can literally take on anything by ourselves.
Put it this way... when an RPG has a multitude ofplayers that have an opinion about someones'template' being stupid because it can't fight a Krayt Solo etc there is something wrong with the game. You can blame the players if your ignorant, but it really is the game, because humans gravitate towards beinginvicible and doing thingseasy. And we are all only human (plus a tonne of Zabraks
.
.Wishing the RPG in MMORPG meant something in MMO's...
Ara-Dan
AraDanBynobi
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:22 am
#50
Mastah, the game forces you to buy them constantly just to be competative. Simple as that. Putting people in a pot creates that situation. What looked good on paper as fun invariably becomes necessity.
When its raining no one forces you to come it side, its just the smarter thing to do right?
Ara-Dan
MonkeyofDoom
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:35 am
#51
MastahHealah wrote:
I dont see anyone forcing you to purchase buffs....
Very true. But the problem comes when you're involved in the GCW and you come across a group (and it's always a GROUP) of buffed UBARs challenging you to a "dule" and they're all buffed up to the eyeballs. Or, they're camping the recruiters/an opposing faction's city and "claiming" it.
Whilst the buffs system is out of whack anyway, it's the people using it that make it worse.
Just don't complain about the lack of content when you master a profession in a day thanks to your buffs. Or complain that your class is broken because you've never learned how it works without buffs and - when you do have to have a proper fight and not some depend-on-buffs clash - when you do run into trouble un-buffed, you get beaten by somebody who does know how to play their character.
Ryche_Mykola
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:05 am
#52
Tavias wrote:
The real balance problem with buffs (among many many other balance issues) is when you combineit witharmor. The major implication of this is trivializing almost all pve (except for the new stuff, which has major issues of their own, which I won't go into here). For pvp, the overpowered buff+armor combination has made it that only a few professions can be competitive.
So the short answer is that yes, buffs are a problem, but they're only one of the problems.
I hate to tell all you this but back when Gurrecks, Arachne Webmasters, and some other creatures had medium armor and higher resists, it was a little more challenging hunting. Same with Graul Maulers when they had light armor and 75% kinetic resists. Creatures got MAJORLY nerfed, don't go blaming buffs/armor .
If they took out buffs, people would go to food then. You will then complain that you would have to buy so much food to be competitive and you always have to eat/drink to PvP.
I wish they would move creatures back to how they were. Then everyone will be crying everything is to tough. Imagine a Webmaster with medium armor and 60% resists, then have 3 on ya, it is a lil challenging. But since Creature Handlers were so overpowered (sarcasm) they needed to be nerfed. Now its a pointless profession.