Force Sensitive Archive

Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

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You're missing the part where pre-pub21 you got double xp for your weapons xp:

1.2 million Rifle XP equated to 80k in FS XP because you got 120k of Combat xp at a rate of 3:1

There are ways to change your template and do it differently b ut not everyone has scout skills nor should they have to have them in order to do the FS quests. Not everyone plays the same number of hours or has the same stomach for grinding.

People who primarily solo are hardest hit by this too becuase you don't generate XP at the same rate as people who group. Solo I could generate about 50k of FS per night which means it was about 2 nights for me to turn in 100k. Under the new conversion rates that would have turned into 4 nights to generate 100k of FS. Sure lots of people could do it faster and if I had grouped evern night I would have been faster, but the point is under my template before it was 2 days per 100k and afterwards without changing anything about the way I was doing it it was 2x as long.

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DocSavag wrote:

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

---

You're missing the part where pre-pub21 you got double xp for your weapons xp:

1.2 million Rifle XP equated to 80k in FS XP because you got 120k of Combat xp at a rate of 3:1

There are ways to change your template and do it differently b ut not everyone has scout skills nor should they have to have them in order to do the FS quests. Not everyone plays the same number of hours or has the same stomach for grinding.

People who primarily solo are hardest hit by this too becuase you don't generate XP at the same rate as people who group. Solo I could generate about 50k of FS per night which means it was about 2 nights for me to turn in 100k. Under the new conversion rates that would have turned into 4 nights to generate 100k of FS. Sure lots of people could do it faster and if I had grouped evern night I would have been faster, but the point is under my template before it was 2 days per 100k and afterwards without changing anything about the way I was doing it it was 2x as long.

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Yes, and you forget what I just said about scouting XP.
For conversion ratios you get more FS XP for scouting then you got before for combat.

Not only that, it's still easy to finish your tree before the 3 weeks are up.
And you said you get less XP solo, well of course you do! You can't come into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game and expect it to be just as easy to solo. No MMORPG game I've ever played put the XP focus on anythung BUT grouping.

Not to flame here, but with the roughly 100+ threads already in existance on this subject, was it really necessary to start a new one, instead of just responding to the question in an existing thread?

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TarMangani wrote:
Not to flame here, but with the roughly 100+ threads already in existance on this subject, was it really necessary to start a new one, instead of just responding to the question in an existing thread?

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Didn't see a point in picking through a ton of flame threads filled with people who aren't really sure why they're complaining.

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

---

You're missing the part where pre-pub21 you got double xp for your weapons xp:

1.2 million Rifle XP equated to 80k in FS XP because you got 120k of Combat xp at a rate of 3:1

There are ways to change your template and do it differently b ut not everyone has scout skills nor should they have to have them in order to do the FS quests. Not everyone plays the same number of hours or has the same stomach for grinding.

People who primarily solo are hardest hit by this too becuase you don't generate XP at the same rate as people who group. Solo I could generate about 50k of FS per night which means it was about 2 nights for me to turn in 100k. Under the new conversion rates that would have turned into 4 nights to generate 100k of FS. Sure lots of people could do it faster and if I had grouped evern night I would have been faster, but the point is under my template before it was 2 days per 100k and afterwards without changing anything about the way I was doing it it was 2x as long.

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Yes, and you forget what I just said about scouting XP.
For conversion ratios you get more FS XP for scouting then you got before for combat.

Not only that, it's still easy to finish your tree before the 3 weeks are up.
And you said you get less XP solo, well of course you do! You can't come into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game and expect it to be just as easy to solo. No MMORPG game I've ever played put the XP focus on anythung BUT grouping.

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You missed the part where I pointed out that not everyone has scout in their template. And since the rate didn't change for scout and combat was 3:1 not 8:1 there is still a net increase in the time spent. I never said grouping SHOULDN'T be more efficient. I pointed out that not everyone can complete the XP required in the same amount of time. The bottom line is that on the day before publish 21 my template using the methods I described netted 100k per cap and afterwards 50-60k per cap. That increases the time unless you change how you are doing it. That is what the fuss is about. You asked why people were upset about it. Unfortunately you didn't really care what the answer was because it didn't apply to you in the first place becuase you have your own method. If someone changed the scout xp to 30:1 (And don't think it isn't possible becuase of the way the CU changed that XP) you might understand more.

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DocSavag wrote:

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

---

You're missing the part where pre-pub21 you got double xp for your weapons xp:

1.2 million Rifle XP equated to 80k in FS XP because you got 120k of Combat xp at a rate of 3:1

There are ways to change your template and do it differently b ut not everyone has scout skills nor should they have to have them in order to do the FS quests. Not everyone plays the same number of hours or has the same stomach for grinding.

People who primarily solo are hardest hit by this too becuase you don't generate XP at the same rate as people who group. Solo I could generate about 50k of FS per night which means it was about 2 nights for me to turn in 100k. Under the new conversion rates that would have turned into 4 nights to generate 100k of FS. Sure lots of people could do it faster and if I had grouped evern night I would have been faster, but the point is under my template before it was 2 days per 100k and afterwards without changing anything about the way I was doing it it was 2x as long.

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Yes, and you forget what I just said about scouting XP.
For conversion ratios you get more FS XP for scouting then you got before for combat.

Not only that, it's still easy to finish your tree before the 3 weeks are up.
And you said you get less XP solo, well of course you do! You can't come into a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game and expect it to be just as easy to solo. No MMORPG game I've ever played put the XP focus on anythung BUT grouping.

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You missed the part where I pointed out that not everyone has scout in their template. And since the rate didn't change for scout and combat was 3:1 not 8:1 there is still a net increase in the time spent. I never said grouping SHOULDN'T be more efficient. I pointed out that not everyone can complete the XP required in the same amount of time. The bottom line is that on the day before publish 21 my template using the methods I described netted 100k per cap and afterwards 50-60k per cap. That increases the time unless you change how you are doing it. That is what the fuss is about. You asked why people were upset about it. Unfortunately you didn't really care what the answer was because it didn't apply to you in the first place becuase you have your own method. If someone changed the scout xp to 30:1 (And don't think it isn't possible becuase of the way the CU changed that XP) you might understand more.

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The point I was trying to make is people endlessly complain about the new XP rates even though there's a better way.
For those grinding to Jedi, here's an eye opener - You'll eventually dump all your old skills anyhow! What's the problem with getting some new ones to make the job faster?
Ranger is not hard to get, you can even grind out more weapons XP to convert while you get it!

The point is if the system changes, it most likely did for a reason.
For those that say change grenade's XP type, stop and think for a second. This isn't as small a change as it sounds, and I hate to say it but going by SoE's record half a dozen other things would break if it was changed.
They took the smarter route and did an easy and less risky fix.

Anyhow, if there IS an easier route then before that takes less effort then I can't see a reason to complain.
The devs aren't gonna custom tailor the grind for anyone, if people are unwilling to change their template to get Jedi faster then that's their decision.

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

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What are you FS skill trees? It can be melee based or ranged based since you can't contribute Scout XP converted FS points. If you did decide to go non-melee, has it affected your overall effectiveness? This would be good to know.

If they changed the rules today that made your goal unattainable in the next 30 days you would be annoyed by it. I'm not saying you wouldn't get over it and find a new plan but you wouldn't like them making you do more work than you had already planned on doing.

And this isn't me griping about something that affects me. I finished mine before the change.

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DocSavag wrote:
If they changed the rules today that made your goal unattainable in the next 30 days you would be annoyed by it. I'm not saying you wouldn't get over it and find a new plan but you wouldn't like them making you do more work than you had already planned on doing.

And this isn't me griping about something that affects me. I finished mine before the change.

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I finished mine before as well, it's just so annoying to hear complaints over and over the second something new is changed.
I honestly can't figure out why people don't use the scouting method, I mean it's better XP then before! What's the problem??

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gotslapped wrote:

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:
Okay, everyone's complaining about how much longer it takes, but even before who really took a full 3 weeks to grind out a single branch?

You still have to wait 3 weeks between phases to get another unlock regardless of how much XP you have, and you can easily do that with these new rates.
Even if you only use weapons XP it doesn't take THAT long.
I did it with pure weapons/combat XP and quite easily at that. If everyone stopped complaining about something so insignificant and took up scout or even mastered ranger they could finish faster then I did.
Unless it was stealth nerfed scouting XP is STILL an 8:1 conversion, and on top of that fighting lv80's you get around 3000-4000XP per harvest.

Are the complaints only from grenaders, or am I missing something?
By using scout XP you're getting pretty much the exact same if not MORE XP per kill then pure combat people were before the conversion change.

If someone could explain the huge problem I'd be happy to listen because I really don't get it.

---

What are you FS skill trees? It can be melee based or ranged based since you can't contribute Scout XP converted FS points. If you did decide to go non-melee, has it affected your overall effectiveness? This would be good to know.

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I waited extra months to get only the unlocks I wanted.
As of tomorrow morning I'll be master prowess and 4/4/0/0 reflexes. All 6 of those trees benefit a Jedi in combat.
(Gen ranged mods help out powers, just look at the powers tree if you don't believe me. Adds 75 gen ranged acc at master with no other skills)

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Bib-Fortuna wrote:

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I finished mine before as well, it's just so annoying to hear complaints over and over the second something new is changed. I honestly can't figure out why people don't use the scouting method, I mean it's better XP then before! What's the problem??

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I guess people don't want to use the scouting method as they want the FS lines that directly affect combat. If I remember, they use reflex and fs combat xp, in which case scouting xp doesn't convert to that.

*shrug* I am guessing you took the combat and reflex trees? Out of interest, would you have taken any FS regardless of its perceived worth just to get Jedi via the quickest route?

Boils down to whether people care about what FS skills they have, if not then sure, respec (if you have one left) to Ranger and go wild. Otherwise, well, you have seen the posts.

Personally, I will wait until I get back from my hols then evaluate what is the quickest way for me to get past the FS village stage and, if required, respec to that. People are bound to be frustrated at the moment as they have just had their big goal moved further away without any comment as to why. Sure, we all guess we know why, but no offical comment has been made. On top of that, if the reason is that it was to prevent people using grenades to speed up combat xp gains there were surely more refined ways of doing this that would have affected only those doing that.

*edit - just realised you posted what FS skills you have above*

Message Edited by Trevellian on 08-11-2005 11:59 AM