Force Sensitive Archive

The CURB will only make the fs grind harder

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vinterthoor wrote:


Here's what's wrong:

80K xp cap for medical xp - makes no sense. Why isn't the cap twice the max needed for the branch like every other xp?

Can't convert any space xp. Why is this excluded?

You can max out combat xp faster with grenades than you can anything else - makes no sense. Why should a pistoleer be at such a dissadvantage compared to a commando?

The conversion rates don't make any sense either, 10:1 for medical xp, 3:1 for combat, 30:1 for all weapons, 1:1 for investigation, 3:1 for slicing, etc. etc.. None of these conversion rates reflect the relative difficulty of getting the xp.

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Message Edited by Othig3207 on 03-23-2005 12:00 AM

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Well, let's see.

1. Agreed, for the most part. The only difference is that you can do the kill/rez or just heal a tumbler inside the village, where combat and combat-related XP has to be done at least a certain distance away, due to the lack of anything to kill. If you could sit inside the village next to Paemos and just cap and turn it in, then it doesn't really matter what the cap is, does it?

2. Don't have an answer for ya there, except that the village was released before JTL, wasn't it? Maybe they are just trying to keep the base game mechanics all inside the base game. Even if space XP converted at a lower rate than everything else, maybe they still consider it outside the base game. I'm grasping here, hehe.

3. I disagree with this one 100%. People have found ways within the rules to speed up the process. I doubt they went through their entire creature database and said, "What if they find out about the giant baz nitches? That screws everything!" Grenades have a very slow speed by comparison to a pistol or just about anything else. Combat XP is supposed to be 10% of weapons XP, so combined with my previous statement it probably made sense at the time. Plus, the cost of grenades is prohibitive for a lot of people. The difference is the XP cap. People would not use grenades if the XP cap was at 90k combat XP.

4. I disagree a little here. 30:1 is fair for weapons, and 3:1 is fair for combat, as the latter is achieved at 10% of the former (except with grenades, which again are slow to throw). Considering the fact that you can get medical XP inside the village, the cap is the only thing that slows people down there, but 10:1 seems a bit low. I've never been a BH but I've heard investigation XP can be difficult to get, so 1:1 makes sense to me on that basis. And I've only been a smuggler for a brief time, IIRC slicing locked containers gets you 250 XP and weapons get you 500 XP per slice (please correct me if I'm wrong), so considering the cost of tools going into it, 3:1 seems about right to me.

Good discussion here! I look forward to your response.

-Devitt Kylrathin

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OK,

1. True, you can cap med xp quickly as a doc doing resusitations or a cm throwing area poison but considering that it takes 153 exchanges (8*153=1225) it makes a big difference compared to any combat prof that only needs to make 10 (9.4 * 130 = 1225) exchanges per branch. I won't go on about it but the deathbot macro has to be one of the most immersion breaking phenomenons in this game. I'm not blaming players who use it. They just want to grind xp fast. Its SOE's fault for allowing it. But in my opinion nothing looks more stupid.

2. I think we agree on the ability to convert space xp. It should be there, that's why I'm hoping it will be added to the CURB. I would only add that SOE is responsible for the architecture of the game and they were responsible for making this a convertable xp.

3 & 4. These are closely related problems in my view. Nades may be slow, but compared to how fast you can get combat xp with them vs even swords, there's no comparison. Nades is one example. Lets use another, if I walk into the squil caves with a good pistol ( a weapon Luke Skywalker actually used in the movies) its going to take me a lot longer to clean it out than it would if I walked in there with an average hammer. All I want to see is this imbalance taken into account. Either make pistols more effective or change the exchange rate. I'd like to see various weapons xp balanced so that one weapons class isn't faster than another when it comes to exchanges. I'm not advocating a nade nerf but make pistols 25:1 or something and maybe make the cap a little higher like 1M instead of 900K. I'm just looking for fairness.

On that note I'd like to see fairness for the non-combat exchanges. Slicing is 250 accross the board. Its no bargain for senses xp. Really, there is no bargain at all for sense xp. I just want to see a reasonable way for people to accumulate senses xp without resorting to immersion breaking macros like the rediculous deathbot. I won't even talk about crafting xp (the conversions are rediculous but I guess they devs wanted to stop people from blowing millions in resources so I won't complain.).

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vinterthoor wrote:

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Kylrathin wrote:
What's wrong with the exchanges? They seem fine to me.

-Devitt Kylrathin

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Here's what's wrong:

80K xp cap for medical xp - makes no sense. Why isn't the cap twice the max needed for the branch like every other xp? - Agreed

Can't convert any space xp. Why is this excluded? - For several reasons, and honestly I don't *want'* to see it made any easier to make Jedi. Space would be populated with ship-bots raking in tons of XP for easy conversion. Let's get some content in space, not grinders please? NO conversion of Pilot XP, but I would like to see Shipwright XP become convertable. Why? Shipwright takes skill points, Pilot doesn't. Not to mention the fact that if the Devs allowed pilot XP or Prestige points to be converted, a player could jump into the game, get on a speeder and fly to all the pertinent waypoints for POI badges, get some help and do the theme parks, become glowy and do the quests to unlock, and fill all 6 boxes in one shot (since there's no limit to pilot prestige points at this time). No thanks.

You can max out combat xp faster with grenades than you can anything else - makes no sense. Why should a pistoleer be at such a dissadvantage compared to a commando? - I'd be happy if they would raise the cap to 3 million weapon XP, so you can max out combat and weapon at the same time. It would mean people could get 200k force XP per trip to the village, and not have to convert templates to commando to do a grenade grind.

The conversion rates don't make any sense either, 10:1 for medical xp, 3:1 for combat, 30:1 for all weapons, 1:1 for investigation, 3:1 for slicing, etc. etc.. None of these conversion rates reflect the relative difficulty of getting the xp. - See above. I don't mind the conversion rates as much as I dislike the XP caps.

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Ialwysdie wrote:

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vinterthoor wrote:


Here's what's wrong:

80K xp cap for medical xp - makes no sense. Why isn't the cap twice the max needed for the branch like every other xp?

Can't convert any space xp. Why is this excluded?

You can max out combat xp faster with grenades than you can anything else - makes no sense. Why should a pistoleer be at such a dissadvantage compared to a commando?

The conversion rates don't make any sense either, 10:1 for medical xp, 3:1 for combat, 30:1 for all weapons, 1:1 for investigation, 3:1 for slicing, etc. etc.. None of these conversion rates reflect the relative difficulty of getting the xp.

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The caps on Professions were there before the village was even in development

Space XP is excluded IMO because it was after the village had been implemented. If you haven't noticed shipwrights cannot convert their XP either. Also gives people who have JTL an advantage over those who don't as Piloting professions don't have SP requirements. You can say politician doesn't either but grinding FS with that would be insane and that was changed after the village and JTL.

How can you say none of the conversion rates reflect the difficulty of getting the xp. Have you ever been a BH and got Investigation XP? God forbid i tried to get 1,225,000 Investigation XP. Only people who get kinda jipped on the conversion rates are crafting professions.

They put all weapons XP in the same category which is fine saying you should get a different rate for a pistol compared to a Powerhammer as far as difficulty does make sense but then I should also get a better conversion if I used a Dagger or 2 handed Axe while it may sound rediculous it's basically the same thing your proposing. I do think they overlooked the Grenade grinding scenario with the combat XP however but they should have thought of it and don't think it should be changed.

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Never said bh's get too much xp for investigation. I have a novi bh on Ahazi. I know the pain of flying accross planet to kill a guy for 100 inv xp. I said the conversions were disproportionate to the difficulty required to get them. Honestly if investigation xp were changed from 1:1 for 3 for 1 would anyone pick up bh to get it? I doubt it.

As far as pilot xp goes my point is this. The Jedi in the movies were all pilots and from EP IV we know they used the force to fight in space. The devs should have accounted for it and I'm hoping it'll be part of the CURB. I understand people w/o jtl will be at a disadvantage but c'mon. At this point who doesn't have it?

A lot of people seem to be defending the use of nades as if I want them nerfed......I don't care how you choose to grind....I care that one form of grinding is favored so much more than another. I know I'm not forced to pick up commando and if I could play for 6 hours a day it wouldn't matter anyway. But that doesn't change the fact that the current system is imbalanced and unfair for a variety of profs. Honestly if you got the same xp gains doing your melee or ranged prof of choice or tossing nades with commando, would you still pick up commando?

I have no comment on the devs decision to make Jedi a 100% combat oriented prof. Something contrary to both the movies and the EU.

Obi-Wan was not a great pilot...infact he hated flying.

OK, were luke and vader good enough to give my point some credence?

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KyiasLightsun wrote:
Obi-Wan was not a great pilot...infact he hated flying.

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Oh, I dunno, he did a pretty bang up job getting away from Jango Fett and his obviously exploited refire rate on Slave 1....

hehe...keep in mind that Obi-waan was doing his damnedest to get away from Jango...

Jango wasn't even breaking a sweat attacking him. The only reason Obi got away was because he was hiding on the astroid...if the fight kept going, Obi-Wan would have died without arguement.

Obi-Wan in one of the movies even said he didn't like space combat.. he wasn't as good at it...he preferred to stay on the ground.

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vinterthoor wrote:

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Ialwysdie wrote:

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vinterthoor wrote:


Here's what's wrong:

80K xp cap for medical xp - makes no sense. Why isn't the cap twice the max needed for the branch like every other xp?

Can't convert any space xp. Why is this excluded?

You can max out combat xp faster with grenades than you can anything else - makes no sense. Why should a pistoleer be at such a dissadvantage compared to a commando?

The conversion rates don't make any sense either, 10:1 for medical xp, 3:1 for combat, 30:1 for all weapons, 1:1 for investigation, 3:1 for slicing, etc. etc.. None of these conversion rates reflect the relative difficulty of getting the xp.

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The caps on Professions were there before the village was even in development

Space XP is excluded IMO because it was after the village had been implemented. If you haven't noticed shipwrights cannot convert their XP either. Also gives people who have JTL an advantage over those who don't as Piloting professions don't have SP requirements. You can say politician doesn't either but grinding FS with that would be insane and that was changed after the village and JTL.

How can you say none of the conversion rates reflect the difficulty of getting the xp. Have you ever been a BH and got Investigation XP? God forbid i tried to get 1,225,000 Investigation XP. Only people who get kinda jipped on the conversion rates are crafting professions.

They put all weapons XP in the same category which is fine saying you should get a different rate for a pistol compared to a Powerhammer as far as difficulty does make sense but then I should also get a better conversion if I used a Dagger or 2 handed Axe while it may sound rediculous it's basically the same thing your proposing. I do think they overlooked the Grenade grinding scenario with the combat XP however but they should have thought of it and don't think it should be changed.

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Never said bh's get too much xp for investigation. I have a novi bh on Ahazi. I know the pain of flying accross planet to kill a guy for 100 inv xp. I said the conversions were disproportionate to the difficulty required to get them. Honestly if investigation xp were changed from 1:1 for 3 for 1 would anyone pick up bh to get it? I doubt it.

As far as pilot xp goes my point is this. The Jedi in the movies were all pilots and from EP IV we know they used the force to fight in space. The devs should have accounted for it and I'm hoping it'll be part of the CURB. I understand people w/o jtl will be at a disadvantage but c'mon. At this point who doesn't have it?

A lot of people seem to be defending the use of nades as if I want them nerfed......I don't care how you choose to grind....I care that one form of grinding is favored so much more than another. I know I'm not forced to pick up commando and if I could play for 6 hours a day it wouldn't matter anyway. But that doesn't change the fact that the current system is imbalanced and unfair for a variety of profs. Honestly if you got the same xp gains doing your melee or ranged prof of choice or tossing nades with commando, would you still pick up commando?

I have no comment on the devs decision to make Jedi a 100% combat oriented prof. Something contrary to both the movies and the EU.

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As far as your comment about BH investigation XP I never mentioned that you were saying they get too much. I think the 1:1 ratio is fine in correlation to how the XP is obtained.

I never did the grenade grind. I finished my FS grind a little less then 3 weeks after my 6th unlock. I was a Master Swordsman/Master Rifleman for about half of the grind and finished up as Master Rifleman/Master Pikeman.

The Conversion rates are fine as they are. Can you cap pistols XP in 1 buff session? Can you cap swordsman XP in 1 buffsession? Answer to both of those are yes if you know your profession. Grenade grinders get XP faster because of they obviously didn't think people would buy crate after crate of grenades and Kill creatures entirely with them.

I don't see how they are imbalanced because if i took my Master Swordsman/Master Rifleman against a 4000 Commando both starting at 0 FS XP arriving at the village at the same time when that time came around for that 6th Unlock we will both have the 6 branches filled and waiting for the old man to do the exit quest. Where is the imbalance? The commando if he had the cash to do so may have finished with getting the XP long before my template but did he get to Jedi any faster? NO.

As for the piloting yes you may understand the advantage those who have JTL compared to those who don't but saying at this point who doesn't is the wrong answer. Until they introduce them as a box set combined anyone who joins the game is not going to have it and I'm pretty sure there are still some that are uninterested in it or some other reason and have not purchased it. The bottom line is that those that don't will be at a disadvantage and that alone is enough. Another advantage JTL people will have over those who don't is the way XP works in space.In a group the XP is not divided by damage done like it is on the ground. Do you need armor in space? NO. Do you need buffs in space? NO. Do you need any kind of food, clothing, or other items that you do on the ground? NO. Other then wounds and BF do you get any kind of Penalty for dieing in space? NO. Your spaceship is the only thing you need to keep up in space compared to the multitude of things you need for ground combat. Your speaking of balance when this obviously gives such an advantage to those who have JTL over those who don't and saying that everyone should have it by now is not a viable answer.

OH and in one of your earlier posts I totally resent your ideas of having Jedi being able to use the force in space. The whole idea on JTL is it's skill based. You speak of balance and try to give Jedi some kind of advantage in space while also promoting more imbalance against those who don't have JTL.

C'mon man stop looking at what you want and look at the idea as a whole and then speak of balance.