Force Sensitive Archive

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Lexis wrote:

Yes i know the point has been brought up "well jedi before me had it easier" so what...What about the hologrind jedi who got shafted and had to master damn near if not every proffesion to unlock? Was there sacrafice less than ours is now? I think not. Atleast we know exactly what needs to be done to unlock whereas they had to mindlessly grind countless professions hoping that the next would unlock to no avail

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Lex, just to clarify myself a bit more, I'am not upset with the xp conversion changes. I am upset with SOE and the way they treat their customers, and it runs a lot deeper than justpublish 21.

SOE treatsusmuch likea used car salesman treats customers. They promise you everything to try and get you to buy the car, they offer you warranties and finance rates up front so that they can try and get a sale, and once they get you to buy the car, suddenly all of their promises fall short and they deny ever making them. You find out that the $200 dollar VIN etch is just a bunch of BS that the dealer uses to snake out more profits. Window treatment? What window treatment? All they did was throw a bunch of windex on your windows and have their porter wash it all off and then charge you another $200 bucks for it.

With every publish SOE reverses their own decisions. Its not the customers fault that they turned on a two week double xp extravaganza that allowed FS grinders to finish their grinds in less than a week. Its not the customers fault that SOE allows people to afk grenade grind. Yet its the customers who get poked continuously by SOE for bad decisions that SOE made themselves.

Its not the conversion change that pissed me off, its the way that SOE slid it in there on you as if they are a used car salesman trying to con you into paying for an unfinished product.

If my remarks came off harshly on you then I am sorry Lex, for I did not intend it that way.

Message Edited by Hydro_AcE on 08-11-2005 06:33 PM

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Lexis wrote:
be in the know before you post....heres some did you know....Did you know that in the begining you had to master any 4 professions then open a holocron and master any 5????? Well its true...The whole purpose for the holos was for the devs to give some incite as to the path to jedi lol. As time passed they increased the amount of professions you needed to master to unlock. So as you can see they did change the amount of time and grinding needed as time went on.

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Yeah I knew that, I got four free unlocks at the village from it. As for the fact of increasing the professions to unlock it was never confirmed, just assumed as loads of people weren't getting thatfifth profession that got them their Jedi, plus I don't think it was true, as someone mastered twice as many professions as I did, and only got 2 free unlocks!

Message Edited by Super_nice_jedi on 08-11-2005 06:05 PM

It was Six prof. to unlock since day one. It never changed. They just let you find out what 4 of them were to get you started. Plus the whole thing is it isn't Hard at all to get jedi. Just Boring,Holo grinding Prof.was alot more fun. This is not a hard game. Just being made stupid for no reason.

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hans803 wrote:

It was Six prof. to unlock since day one. It never changed. They just let you find out what 4 of them were to get you started. Plus the whole thing is it isn't Hard at all to get jedi. Just Boring,Holo grinding Prof.was alot more fun. This is not a hard game. Just being made stupid for no reason.

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Nope it was changed from 4+1 to 4+4. Stated by a dev a long time ago.

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Lexis wrote:
be in the know before you post....heres some did you know....Did you know that in the begining you had to master any 4 professions then open a holocron and master any 5????? Well its true... not at all that is totally wrong The whole purpose for the holos was for the devs to give some incite as to the path to jedi lol. As time passed they increased the amount of professions you needed to master to unlock. So as you can see they did change the amount of time and grinding needed as time went on.

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no, you used 4 holocrons to see what 4 professions, and then you had to guess the other 4

SOE treatsusmuch likea used car salesman treats customers

.

Message Edited by Super_nice_jedi on 08-12-2005 10:22 AM

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Hydro_AcE wrote:

First off, this isnt real life, its a game. Secondly, I don't think people are upset just because of the conversion change, they are upset over the way SOE slid it into their update while not having it listed in the patch notes. People are upset, because SOE treats their paying customers like beta testers. It has less to do with the actual xp changes that were made, and more to do with SOE and how they treat customers.

No, but this change does hurt the casual player a lot more than it does a 15 year old on summer vacation. Anyone who can not understand this, is either in denial or they lack a brain that can think. Once again the problem here is content, right now Jedi is the main end game content of SWG. Lets face it, people don't buy the game to become droid engineers or squad leaders, they buy it to become a Jedi. So when SOE changed the conversion rates, many of the casual players felt cut off from the end game content in a way that many power gamers do not.

On the other hand, since Jedi is basically the only end game content, you simply cannot cut that off from casual players in the way that SOE did and not expect people to be a little pissed off by it.

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Well, I agree that SOE could do a lot more to keep the players informed of what they are working on, whats coming down the pipe etc. Most game companies need work in this area, and they should IMHO look to Cryptic Studios (makers of City of Heroes) for an example of how to do it right. Their communications and interaction with their playerbase is top notch. SOE needs some work still.

I disagree that Jedi is the only end game content though. I have NO interest in playing a Jedi, nor did I when the game first came out. I did play a Droid Engineer for many months though, making and selling droids and enjoying the superior crafting system this game has to offer. I eventually moved on to other games. I did try various combat professions during the CU respec phase when I returned for it, but ended up taking up Weaponsmith which I had always intended to try out. I loved it immensely and was quite successful at it. I finally finished the initial FS phase and now I am doing grinding for FS experience - but only for the alt slot, they can keep their Jedi status.

There are plenty of people who enjoy playing the game in professions other than Jedi. There are in fact plenty of people who enjoy playing the game and never engage in PvP, dueling or any aspect of the CGW. Its not everyone's cup of tea. So please don't presume to make grand statements that Jedi is it. It may be the only end game content that PvP dudes see, and it may be what most newbs think is the objective of the game, but I can't give a rat's butt for the dudes or their concerns and I sincerely hope that the newbs get the opportunity to see that the game has a lot greater depth than it might at first appear to have. There are hundreds of possible paths you can choose in this game each at least marginally different from the rest, and only a few are so limited as to view PvP as the only valid activity or endgame.

I think people expect to unlock Jedi with minimal effort. They want things made easy for them, but that is not the way the game is designed. Now, as a matter of fact I think if it had been designed properly, Jedi would be a starter class - but made such that you never saw them being overt, they never participated in the GCW (they would get their own covert mini-CGW against their Sith or Rebel opponents instead) and no one would complain at all about half the issues we see posted at the moment.

I think the grind is highly casual unfriendly, and I expect that following its current pattern of mostly making Jedi far far easier to obtain (up until the conversion rate change), they will eventually make it a starter class to ensure they get more sales. Expect an expansion about a year from now that lets you just start out as one. The toothpaste is out of the tube so to speak and you just can't put it back in. Jedi is the most numerous profession in the game on many servers and they are not going to go anywhere. All SOE can do is force them underground so you don't see them anywhere near as often.

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Hydro_AcE wrote:

"People need to realize that to attain any goal in life, or in the gaming realm requires hard work and percerverance."

First off, this isnt real life, its a game. Secondly, I don't think people are upset just because of the conversion change, they are upset over the way SOE slid it into their update while not having it listed in the patch notes. People are upset, because SOE treats their paying customers like beta testers. It has less to do with the actual xpchanges thatwere made, and more to do with SOE and how they treat customers.

"Does anyone enjoy mindless grinding weather it be the casual grinder or the power grinder?"

No, but this change does hurt the casual player a lot more than it does a 15 year old on summer vacation. Anyone who can not understand this, is either in denial or they lack a brain that can think. Once again the problem here is content, right now Jedi is the main end game content of SWG. Lets face it, people don't buy the game to become droid engineers or squad leaders, they buy it to become a Jedi. So when SOE changed the conversion rates, many of the casual players felt cut off from the end game content in a way that many power gamers do not.

"The fact remains you get out of life what you put into it, this very much relates to how this game functions."

Once again, SWG is game, not real life.Just because you make the game your life, does not mean that everyone else does.

"Some call for a petition to reverse the combat xp conversion, why? Its pointless to beat a dead horse because we all know this is the way its going to be, no amount of complaining will change the dev's minds in this matter."

You obviously don't know SOE very well. They are constantly backing down from their own decisions and reversing code around with every patch. One week, they will have double xp turned on, and the next week they will decide that was a mistake and change conversion rates around. It all happens in circular motion, they nerf one thing, then the next patch they boost it back again. Its clearly obvious they never stand behind any of the decisions they make nor do they take the time to think anything through before bringing it down on the live servers.

8 weeks from now and this will be a completely different game than it is now, because SOE likes treating their customers as beta testers.

"The people who flame hard work obviously never had that talk with there parents about working hard to achieve there goals."

I don't really know what point your trying to make here, are you suggesting that games be treated like work? And if thats true, then shouldn't SOE be paying us to play the game?

Personally when I go to work every moring, I do it knowing that atthe end of the week I will earn a paycheck that will pay my bills and put my kids in college. I play games to relax and have fun with friends, not for work.

If you have no other sense of accomplishment in life other than your Jedi, then I feel very sorry for you friend. Most of the rest of us have real jobs, wives, kids, and other things to feel accomplished in life. We don't need to feel like we accomplished a Jedi in a game that we are paying 15 bucks a month to play. We don't get any sense of superiority from playing a Jedi in the way that you do.

On the other hand, since Jedi is basically the only end game content, you simply cannot cut that off from casual players in the way that SOE did and not expect people to be a little pissed off by it.

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You said it all!

/cheer

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masterim-doublea wrote:

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Lexis wrote:

First off ill start by saying wake up!!!! People need to realize that to attain any goal in life, or in the gaming realm requires hard work and percerverance. Does anyone enjoy mindless grinding weather it be the casual grinder or the power grinder? No I think not.... Jedi is a reward, not a right as some people seem to believe it is. For some it may take 18 weeks, others much longer. The fact remains you get out of life what you put into it, this very much relates to how this game functions. Yes alot of us are grinding our way to jedi, most of us have our own reasons for doing so.

Having said that people really shouldnt focus so much on the change from 3-1 to 30-1 combat xp conversion, fact is either waywith a little percerverance we'll unlock be it now or later. Some call for a petition to reverse the combat xp conversion, why? Its pointless to beat a dead horse because we all know this is the way its going to be, no amount of complaining will change the dev's minds in this matter. Jedi is not a right its an earned priveledge, percervere long enough and you to will attain it. For those who wish to quit due to this new addition to the force sensitive grind I say goodbye, lets face it you can earn it like everyone else or leave. Yes i know the point has been brought up "well jedi before me had it easier" so what...What about the hologrind jedi who got shafted and had to master damn near if not every proffesion to unlock? Was there sacrafice less than ours is now? I think not. Atleast we know exactly what needs to be done to unlock whereas they had to mindlessly grind countless professions hoping that the next would unlock to no avail...Flame me if you wish, but have you noticed groups do stay together longer than they ever have? If your so turned off by the amount of work involved in becoming a jedi, and want to complain constantly about the work involvedthen quite frankly you dont deserve the honor of being one.

Flame away, Doesnt really matter to me. The people who flame hard work obviously never had that talk with there parents about working hard to achieve there goals.

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ok do the jedi who unlocked in the post cu double xp combat 3:1 is just as eazy as no double xp 30:1 ? crazy, yea some pple got it eazt and got jedi and are loving this, ther saying haha i have jedi and now its so hard everyone else is gona give up!

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Although it is embarressing, I have to say that I agree with him. They have already left the Jedi floodgate open, so to now say that they want to screw over the people that are not power grinders (I unlocked FS 2 weeks after the village was implemented) is unfair. If they want to snare the grind for us casual players instead of rooting us, I would suggest they make the combat XP (and medical)a 10:1 ratio.

Message Edited by Bain- on 08-12-2005 01:58 PM

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Bain- wrote:

For those that currently starting the grind, if you are master rifleman and cap rifle XP at 1.2m, it will take you over 200+ days to just unlock your jedi. That is if you spend the time to get in a group, get inspiration buffed, do missions, and cap EVERY SINGLE DAY... I assume that I am not the only one that does not want to spend 200+ days reaching the endgame content. Not to mention that I do not have the time to cap XP every since day...

Message Edited by Bain- on 08-12-2005 01:58 PM

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Okay so my math is probably way off here, feel free to correct my assumptions below. I am also assuming that you simply want Jedi as soon as possible and don't care that much about the bonuses. This is certainly my situation since I have no interest in Jedi at all, I just want the alt slot.

Template:
MScout/MCH/BH0444/Ranger0440 CL80 (according to the bloodfin character generator)

Caps at:
Creature Handling Experience - 1 million
Scouting Experience - 1 million
Carbine Experience - 900k
Pistol Experience - 900k
Rifle Experience - 900k
Combat Experience - 300k

(I am not sure that Ranger 0040 will cap at 1 million exps)

Which should convert to:
111k FS exps from CH Experience at 9:1
125 FS exps from Ranger Experience at 8:1
For 236k of Heightened Senses exps per trip

30k FS exps from each of Carbine, Pistol, and Rifle at 30:1
10k FS exps of Combat Experience also at 30:1
For 100k of Combat Prowess/Enhanced Reflexes FS exp per trip.

Now each tree of the 6 you need is 1225000 FS exps total. If you do 4 Heightened Senses trees thats
4.9m required. 21 Capped trips will net you all 4 boxes of Heightend Senses (Healing, Survey, Persuasion and Luck). That leaves 2 branches from Combat Prowess or Enhanced Reflexes to choose, and they require a total of 2,450,000 FS exps. They require 25 capped trips to complete.

It is going to take a long time for sure. If my figures above are correct (and I am sure I am wrong somewhere) then its going to take a minimum of 25 capped trips - and assuming you can cap everything in a few days its still going to be a few months to complete this - of course you have to wait for the village to cycle anyways, so there is no rushing it in any case.