Fencer Archive
Thread: The Problem with Fencer...
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Straker_Atrella
Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:13 pm
#1
Well it's more of a problem with game design then with Fencer, but here it is.
Now Fencer is a defensive class, arguably the BEST defensive class around. The best defense means we have the lowest offense and this (imo) is how it should be. People tend to forget that were suppossed to have lower damage, simply because as we level up, and in many places we do very well. Sure we don't hit as hard as some other classes, but we kill ok. People get spoiled by this, so when they get to hard places where the mobs have armor, our damage sucks and the cries for Armor Piercing arise.
However, damage isn't the problem, DEFENSE is the problem.
First, for 90% of the game, defense doesn't matter. Good Armor, medic skilland buffs make it so even a Novice is in no danger from pretty much anything.
Then in places where defense DOES matter, the Devs went so far over the edge with Mob attack skills that great defense doesn't matter at all. The Corvette and DWB are PERFECT examples of this. A Fencer can hardly hurt stuff there, dueto high armor levels, which is fine. Our job should be to Tank, while others kill. This just doesn't work, you get hit way to often. I'm a Fencer / Rifleman, with a good bit of TKA. I have maxed Ranged Defense and Maxed Melee Defense, also have mitigation for both, and great toughness. In either of these places, I can't really tank any better then anybody else. I get hit way to often.
So why take a Fencer to these places? They can't tank, they can't kill stuff, what good are they?
The Geno Caves are an awesome example of how a Fencer SHOULD work. In the Geno caves, a Fencer kills slow, he can kill, but slowly. However, he can Tank great. By using Taunt, I routinely pull aggro away from my group, and onto me. I can tank large mobs that would eat another class in seconds. Sure I get hit and hurt, but my Defense matters. I have a role to fill, and enjoy it.
Now, I understand (sorta) why the Devs made the DWB and Vette so hard. 2500 Buffs, high composite armor, and defense stacking made them push the Mob offenses to extreme levels. I agree with that, people need a challange, make the stuff hit really hard. What I don't see is why they pushed their attack values so high that a defensive class like Fencer is rendered useless.
JCSavage
Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:51 pm
#2
I agree 100% with you here.
I recently posted something similar about my experience in the DWB, where, despite my defenses, I was never once missed by the Super Battle Droids. (Never dodged either.) Someone elsewhere wrote that taking a fencer's defenses away is like taking a rifleman's headshot or strafeshot away, or taking CM's poisons away.
Excellent defenses are the main attraction, for me, for being a fencer. Normal, and even some high-end content is great fun for me... But the newer dungeons, like the Corvette and DWB, just have no room for me.
I know we've all heard this line before: 'Hopefully the combat balance will help fix this problem.' 
-Savage
Straker_Atrella
Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:10 pm
#3
Yea I hope the Combat Balance will fix it as well, but to be honest, I don't think that is what it will be about.
I expect it to be more broad, changing armor, changing buffs. Changing how specials work, like for example, we have a pool (kind of like a force pool) that our specials come from. So no more endless spamming of specials.
I'm sure some professions will get nerfed and others love. Yet let's face it, Fencer isn't considered a "weak" class by many. I am afraid we will feel more Nerfed then Loved. Fencer "problems" are relatively new and not well known.
I hope the Devs even realize the current problem we addressed in the top 2 threads.
LuapLink
Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:32 pm
#4
The next Fencer question for '19 Questions' is about the accuracy of these high level mobs, hopefully we wil get some sort of answer about the problem then.
-Colonel Ryudo Hazuki (FarStar) Blade Weaver / Scooby Doo Lookalike
5 stars!
Holbach
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:18 pm
#8
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Well it's more of a problem with game design then with Fencer, but here it is.
Now Fencer is a defensive class, arguably the BEST defensive class around. The best defense means we have the lowest offense and this (imo) is how it should be. People tend to forget that were suppossed to have lower damage, simply because as we level up, and in many places we do very well. Sure we don't hit as hard as some other classes, but we kill ok. People get spoiled by this, so when they get to hard places where the mobs have armor, our damage sucks and the cries for Armor Piercing arise.
However, damage isn't the problem, DEFENSE is the problem.
First, for 90% of the game, defense doesn't matter. Good Armor, medic skilland buffs make it so even a Novice is in no danger from pretty much anything.
Then in places where defense DOES matter, the Devs went so far over the edge with Mob attack skills that great defense doesn't matter at all. The Corvette and DWB are PERFECT examples of this. A Fencer can hardly hurt stuff there, dueto high armor levels, which is fine. Our job should be to Tank, while others kill. This just doesn't work, you get hit way to often. I'm a Fencer / Rifleman, with a good bit of TKA. I have maxed Ranged Defense and Maxed Melee Defense, also have mitigation for both, and great toughness. In either of these places, I can't really tank any better then anybody else. I get hit way to often.
So why take a Fencer to these places? They can't tank, they can't kill stuff, what good are they?
The Geno Caves are an awesome example of how a Fencer SHOULD work. In the Geno caves, a Fencer kills slow, he can kill, but slowly. However, he can Tank great. By using Taunt, I routinely pull aggro away from my group, and onto me. I can tank large mobs that would eat another class in seconds. Sure I get hit and hurt, but my Defense matters. I have a role to fill, and enjoy it.
Now, I understand (sorta) why the Devs made the DWB and Vette so hard. 2500 Buffs, high composite armor, and defense stacking made them push the Mob offenses to extreme levels. I agree with that, people need a challange, make the stuff hit really hard. What I don't see is why they pushed their attack values so high that a defensive class like Fencer is rendered useless.
What he said. Also, the exact same can be said of pistoleers.
Straker_Atrella
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:08 pm
#9
Yea Pistoleer is pretty much the same way, they take a beating as well and have low offense. At least they have some AP and a decent array of damage choices.
Don't get me wrong, MANY classes need work. Carbineer is far more broken then Fencer.
My point is that Fencer itself isn't broken as a class. Yet the new content is "breaking" it. I hope that made sense.
I don't care about having an AP weapon really, if I wanted that, I would be a Swordsman. If I'm a Tank, I just want to be a Tank.
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