Fencer Archive

I just got done posting some stuff in various profession forums, summed up here:

Bounty Hunter:

• We made bounty hunter targets easier
  
• Added 5 charges to seekers
  
• Added 10 charges to probots.
  
• Fixed bounty hunter targets losing their tef when unloaded.

Rifleman:

• Fixed surprise Shot (It was broken, changed it so it doesn’t remove cover state)

Carbine:

• Fixed chargeshot2 so it works on a cone again

In addition to these, we also have the following general combat changes we're looking at. Sanity check?

• increased penalty for firing while moving
  
• increased defensive bonuses for moving targets
  
• Added 30 second timer to knockdown/posture changes
  
• Decreased the cost of ALL knockdown moves
  
• Increased the damage on all knockdown moves to compensate for 30 second timer

We still want to investigate:

• Move costs for cabineers
  
• Move costs for unarmed in relation to their damage

-Raph Koster, Creative Director

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From what I understand, fencers use lunge/dizzy quite a bit, and nothing about this 30 second timer to posture moves upsets you guys in the slightest?

Fencers have not whines about much yet, why would we whine about this. Just another change in this everchanging game to deal with.

But spamming posture changes does dumb down many fights. I can use my Suppression Fire all day with my pistol and keep mobs on their knees and unable to come at me.

When I fight NPC's the lunge/dizzy usually works...if not, not a big deal, I will still beat it ass down hehe

Added 30 second timer to knockdown/posture changes

Decreased the cost of ALL knockdown moves

Increased the damage on all knockdown moves to compensate for 30 second timer

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There are few important details left out of this message due to the poor wording.

1. 30 second timer.

Is the timer on the target you are applying the KD/PC to, or on the person attempting the KD/PC? This makes a huge difference. There are a few ways this could have been implimented.

A. Timer on Target being directly attacked with a KD/PC

I suppose I can live with this. Yes, it hurts us as attackers, but it does help us as defenders. Itgives a person that manages to recover from a KD/PC a fighting chance of survival. Still, exactly what is the timer on? The KD/PC attack itself, or the KD/PC'd person? If the timer is on the attack, then once a person has been attacked with a KD/PC, they are immune to another for 30 seconds. That's reasonable.

B. Timer on Target being impacted by a KD/PC effect

This would mean a person can only suffer from KD once in 30 seconds. I know that sounds like the same thing but it isn't. This would be a tremendous nerf to us Fencers. The reason is that we use Dizzy/Lunge as our ghetto KD. It works because once we PC our target, the Dizzy part makes them fall into a KD if they attempt to stand back up. Then if they try and get back up again with Dizzy still applied, they again can fall into a KD position.

This would no longer be the case. We would Dizzy, then Lunge which performs a PC. 30 second timer starts. Target attempts to stand up, and they fail their equalibrium check and suffer a KD. However, since they are only like 2 seconds into their 30 sec KD/PC invulnerability timer, the KD has zero effect. They stand right back up and proceed to attack us. The combat will be over (one way or the other) before we can attempt a Dizzy-Lunge again. In effect, the Dizzy-Lunge combo will end up a thing of the past and we can say goodbye to any real chance in PvP.

C. Timeron attacker's ability toattempt a KD/PC type of manuever every 30 seconds

This has otherramifications. That means I can be under seige by 2+ targets, the first is weak (and knows it) and simply charges in knowing I'll lead off with a Dizzy/Lunge. Successful or not, the second person can now close to attack with zero fear of a KD/PC for 30 seonds. This would also seriously hurt us in PvP, as well as in PvE when dealing with humanoids.

2. Decreased KD costs

Ok, they addressed both KD and PCs with regard to the timer, but only KD with regard to the cost. Do we continue to pay first price for our now handicapped PCing Lunge1? or did they just forget to mention it?

3. Increase KD damage

Same question. Did our Lunge1 get a damage increase as well?

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Depending on exactly how they did this (like I said the message is too vague), this could "the Fencer Nerf" that brings us down. Dizzy-Lunge was pretty much our only neat trick, and if they implimented this as it appears they could have, that trick is all but gone.

***If we would have had a functioning correspondant, this might have been dirverted. Minerunner, if you are reading this, you suck for bailing on us with no forewarning, reason, or excuse. Bad form! I really hate ragging on anyone, but if you didn't want the job you shouldn't have asked for and then accepted it. We need someone with a sense of responsibility, and passion for the profession. Not someone that bails at the first sign of work. I'm very dissappointed in you. At least have the professionalism to post something to the Dev's letting them know you have abandoned your office, and that the Fencer community is in need ofa replacement. It would regain you a margin of dignity.

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I haven't had a chance to log in since the day before yesterday, so I haven't had the chance to test any of this yet. Has anyone else been able to experiment with this and see? Hopefully it's not as bad as it looks.

~Lyahpar~

La Femme Fencer

"Thrust if you love Fencers!"

I think they need to add a required "stay in this mode" timer for PCs too. How many times have you dropped someone to their knees only to see them on their feet again 1 second later?

Agreed Raphayl...I posted in there 'round page 3 when Holocron asked for his 'Sanity Check' because I wanted alot more clarification on the vague wording presented. Well, that and I felt (and still feel) that the 30 second timer is way too long, no matter what the interpretation.

During PvP, the only way you will beable to kill a ranged attacker is by using lunge/dizzy/lunge. The way lunge is set up vs. players is that they can get back up before you can hit them again (I have advanced footwork- I don't know if you will beable to get in a dizzy before they get back up when you have expert footwork.) They will be running away after you lunged the first time and you might beable to get your dizzy in if you are running in the right direction with them, something that can be hard if you are in a high latency situation. In order to make them actually fall down though, you need to make them change posture yet one more time, which is where the second lunge comes into play.

The thirty second timer will make our lives hell. We will be running after our enemies and will not beable to make them stop running away, at least for thirty seconds. They can still shoot us, even when they are kneeling, but we won't beable to reach them because of distance issues and latency issues.

Increased damage for knockdowns and posture change might be nice, since lunge does 1-10 damage, but will be devistating in the hands of a pikeman, when they have a very damaging posture change attack anyways.

Nowhere does it say all posture change specials will have their damage increased, it only says that about knockdowns, so stop assuming that other classes' posture changing attacks will be buffed and yours wouldn't.

umm call me a noob but it says a 30 second timer on KD attacks not moves that MAY result in knocking an opponent down OR having a 30 second timer after being knocked down ... This doesnt effect us in the slightest.

the way its worded if you had pistol KD and brawler KD and knew your way around marcos you could still get several off by switching weapons and moves..

Fencers dont actually get knockdown which may be why fencers dont care. I am a Master brawler and actually look forward to it. I agree its a huge change but is needed very bad. Even after the decrease in pvp damage It still comes down to whoever kds first. I have read many people posting that the only way a fencer can win a fight is to use lunge/dizzy/lunge which isnt true. I never use dizzy. I agree that lunge or something like it is important but any attack will do because I do not let people get up. The claim that someone can get up is ridiculous.. I have master footwork and for ever animation you see my guy do i hit you like 4 times.. If i knock you down I will spam 2 or 3 combat moves then another 2 lunges. You will not get away you will not even start to run. I think these changes are definitely required for both pvp and pvm. Its too easy to just keep a mob on its back. I will have to rethink my strategy but these changes will help us in pvp overall. The knockdown hurts my strategy in duels but actually helps in most pvp. Any melee will tell you that duels and outright pvp are completely different animals. If any ranged attacker with a knockdown sees you first you are dead. These changes will help that a little. I'd still like to see how much they are decreasing ranged accuracy while running though.

Psst. Spock.

Added 30 second timer to knockdown/posture changes

Lunge is a posture change. Fencers *do* care. We just don't have the lobby that the other classes do since we have very low numbers. =X

I don't mind using lunge every 30 secs in PVP if that means I pistoleer can't only do knockdown once.

It gives us one chance to get the guy on his back.

Good enough for me.

Only downside is in PVE, that will be more challenging and probably make us not so powerful against humanoids.

i pvp alot on the bria server.... and ever since the patch ive noticed that the gun guys just dont go down or get hit anymore.... maybe its what u guys have been talking about.... but imo PvP for fencers vs gun guys got really stupid.... and weak..... shoulda left it like how it was at first.... just my 2 cents.