Fencer Archive
Thread: Melee Mitigation 3, Dosen't It Make You Mad? REMOVE IT FROM PVP
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GoodToTheTouch
Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:50 pm
#1
Dosen't it bother you that its a 60% reduction for melee in PVP...... duels last for 15-60 minutes, is it me or is that not right?
In PVP..... you can run around and gank all the rifleman you want but you're forced to not even bother to fight other melee cause the CM's and Rifleman will kill you while your doing so, maybe its just me, but if melee could kill melee the world would be a better place, and on top of that, PVP would be a lot funner not having to just go after ranged people.....
I'm sure a lot of you will be little **edit** and say "no don't take my defense away" well your stupid, extreamly stupid, if you want a defense that makes melee vs. melee impossible in PVP and 60 minutes duels, I guess thats your call, but whos that stupid
In PVP..... you can run around and gank all the rifleman you want but you're forced to not even bother to fight other melee cause the CM's and Rifleman will kill you while your doing so, maybe its just me, but if melee could kill melee the world would be a better place, and on top of that, PVP would be a lot funner not having to just go after ranged people.....
I'm sure a lot of you will be little **edit** and say "no don't take my defense away" well your stupid, extreamly stupid, if you want a defense that makes melee vs. melee impossible in PVP and 60 minutes duels, I guess thats your call, but whos that stupid
GirthSnail
Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:12 pm
#2
It's not the mitigation, it's the defenses and toughness - otherwise ranged professions would have the same problem too. But we need that stuff so we can be effective tankes in PvE. Anyway, I'mpretty sure the devs have said melee mitigation is gonna be removed in the combat revamp (or was that the dude who posted that he'd spoken to the devs in a cafe?).
Oh, and it isn't a 60% decrease... maybe 40%, but it depends on the min damage.
jakesnake
Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:47 pm
#3
Melee mitigation mitigates the range of a melee weapon's damage, not the total damage.
Message Edited by jakesnake on 07-24-2004 03:48 PM
Irtimed
Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:13 pm
#4
.... fencer and tka are notreally effected by this because their damage ranges are not that wide... pike and swordsman on the other hand are royally fubared...
DarthVillanus
Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:54 am
#5
Mitigation isn't the problem. Removing mitigation wouldn't make a bit of difference. Armor is the real problem. It's not toughness, it's not defenses, and it's not mitigation that makes pvp duels last forever its armor.
| Kalon Wiekog - Dark Jedi Knight |
GoodToTheTouch
Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:40 pm
#6
your so wrong you don't even understand how things work
think about it, 15-60 minute duels for melee to melee and yet melee to ranged can last 20 seconds.......
you don't know what your talking about, the "range" or the weapon you say, its not like that, its a 60% reduction from the max damage, so basicly you hit for any thing thats under that 60%, and with accurcy mods and ranged mods on your gun, it improves how high of damage you do, don't argue with me on this, I know for a fact the ranged mods have an effect, and the accurcarcy may too
if you can explain to me why melee can't kill melee but they can kill ranged, and vice versa, you'll make sense, until then your meaningless
think about it, 15-60 minute duels for melee to melee and yet melee to ranged can last 20 seconds.......
you don't know what your talking about, the "range" or the weapon you say, its not like that, its a 60% reduction from the max damage, so basicly you hit for any thing thats under that 60%, and with accurcy mods and ranged mods on your gun, it improves how high of damage you do, don't argue with me on this, I know for a fact the ranged mods have an effect, and the accurcarcy may too
if you can explain to me why melee can't kill melee but they can kill ranged, and vice versa, you'll make sense, until then your meaningless
Orkboyz
Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:33 am
#7
Having only melee fighting skills, I tend to avoid PvP combat in open areas and make people chase me into buildings where I have the advantage of close quarter combat. Or, if I have to fight in the open, pick on the medics and doctors and avoid the heavy hitters.
TyrranSkorr
Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:21 am
#8
Mitigation does not reduce the actual damage. It narrows the range of damage able to be dealt. Im not sure where you get this 60% but i have always been told it just lowers the max dmage.
I'm pretty sure thatif your right, the problem would also be affecting range vs range.
Now I definately want to keep the mitigation since I will go pve every once in awhile for loot. I also think it should stay because i have been in duels and have never had them last over 10 mins. Im sorry to say but if your duels last over 10 minutes it is because you are relying to much on regular moves.
DOT's is a good solution to your problem.
Irtimed
Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:04 pm
#9
GoodToTheTouch wrote:
your so wrong you don't even understand how things work
think about it, 15-60 minute duels for melee to melee and yet melee to ranged can last 20 seconds.......
you don't know what your talking about, the "range" or the weapon you say, its not like that, its a 60% reduction from the max damage, so basicly you hit for any thing thats under that 60%, and with accurcy mods and ranged mods on your gun, it improves how high of damage you do, don't argue with me on this, I know for a fact the ranged mods have an effect, and the accurcarcy may too
if you can explain to me why melee can't kill melee but they can kill ranged, and vice versa, you'll make sense, until then your meaningless
ok you need to lay down some things first... were these duels in armor or not? THIS is a very important thing. melee vs. melee duels in armor are going to last a long time depending on some factors.
a) who it is that is dueling: if its a fencer vs a swordsman.... more then likely the fencer is gonna win. Stun baton > most armor unless....
b) the type or armor being used: stun armor > stun baton. ya sure you will end up doing more damage with a stun baton then a gaffi vs stun armor most of the time.. but you still are not doing that much more damage, and the other melee classes have AP1 at least (pike and swordsman have AP2).
The limiting factor for most melee is the kinietic damage. sure swordsman, fencer and pike have at least one other damage type (fencer being the favored because most armor is vuln to its stun baton), but blast and elec are usually in the 60% and up range when it comes to armor. and the poor tkas... I mean.. sure they can dish out the damage and tank with the best of them but they are limited ONLY to kinetic (from what i heard the heat VKs were crapped.
now... melee versus melee duels CAN BE LONG. ususally because of armor... not because of damage mitigation. your proof? pssh... if you where here before damage mitigation you dont need proof. melee duels have alawys lasted forever with armor. and as for a ranged getting owned by a melee... if the melee gets in range of the ranged... they SHOULD be owned. peroid, end of story. the whole point of ranged combat is to shoot from afar.
Worldmaker2k4
Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:26 pm
#11
Let's break it down for the run-on paragraph posters:
Melee Damage Mitigation 3: At third level, this reduces the range of a weapon's damageto 40%. To figure this out, use the following formula:
Max damage - min damage = damage range
Damage range * 40% = range reduction
Range reduction + min damage = new max damage
Test this out on a theoretical stun baton: (Say, 130-240 damage)
240 - 130 = 110
110 * .40 = 44
130 + 44 = 174
So, the stats for this weapon against a melee toon with Damage Mitigation 3 are 130-174
Test it out with a power hammer: (Say, 145-560)
560 - 145 = 415
415 * .40 = 166
145 + 166 = 311
Final stats? 145-311 damage.
This is why melee mitigation screws over Swordsmen and Pikemen. Their damage range on weapons tends to be high.
Now that you've done this math, continue:
(Armor reduction: Kinetic, blast, electricity and most melee damages are vulnerable to reduction of 70-80% in armor. Stun is a little more fortunate, but only the Stun Baton has this damage.)
The reduction is further worsened by armor effectiveness. Usually around 80% for serious PvPers. 32% against Stun.
Now reduce for Melee Toughness. TKMs have the highest at Master (40%). This is a direct percentage reduction.
Now reduce 75% for general PvP.
Are we understanding this yet? He wasn't talking out of his ass about range, nor was he making up "toughness". Melee combatants get these bonuses against other melee combatants. The only reason Fencers remotely begin to compete with non-Jedi melee is because Scatterhit2 seems to ignore dodge and armor rating, and they do stun damage, so they find themselves getting less reduction.
raldurrm
Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:37 pm
#12
PvP sucks right now and just by reading the starting of your wanna-be rant All I can say is go cry on some one elses forums...
GoodToTheTouch wrote:
Dosen't it bother you that its a 60% reduction for melee in PVP...... duels last for 15-60 minutes, is it me or is that not right?
In PVP..... you can run around and gank all the rifleman you want but you're forced to not even bother to fight other melee cause the CM's and Rifleman will kill you while your doing so, maybe its just me, but if melee could kill melee the world would be a better place, and on top of that, PVP would be a lot funner not having to just go after ranged people.....
I'm sure a lot of you will be little **edit** and say "no don't take my defense away" well your stupid, extreamly stupid, if you want a defense that makes melee vs. melee impossible in PVP and 60 minutes duels, I guess thats your call, but whos that stupid
Irtimed
Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:14 pm
#13
Worldmaker2k4 wrote:
Let's break it down for the run-on paragraph posters:
Melee Damage Mitigation 3: At third level, this reduces the range of a weapon's damageto 40%. To figure this out, use the following formula:
Max damage - min damage = damage range
Damage range * 40% = range reduction
Range reduction + min damage = new max damage
Test this out on a theoretical stun baton: (Say, 130-240 damage)
240 - 130 = 110
110 * .40 = 44
130 + 44 = 174
So, the stats for this weapon against a melee toon with Damage Mitigation 3 are 130-174
Test it out with a power hammer: (Say, 145-560)
560 - 145 = 415
415 * .40 = 166
145 + 166 = 311
Final stats? 145-311 damage.
This is why melee mitigation screws over Swordsmen and Pikemen. Their damage range on weapons tends to be high.
Now that you've done this math, continue:
(Armor reduction: Kinetic, blast, electricity and most melee damages are vulnerable to reduction of 70-80% in armor. Stun is a little more fortunate, but only the Stun Baton has this damage.)
The reduction is further worsened by armor effectiveness. Usually around 80% for serious PvPers. 32% against Stun.
Now reduce for Melee Toughness. TKMs have the highest at Master (40%). This is a direct percentage reduction.
Now reduce 75% for general PvP.
Are we understanding this yet? He wasn't talking out of his ass about range, nor was he making up "toughness". Melee combatants get these bonuses against other melee combatants. The only reason Fencers remotely begin to compete with non-Jedi melee is because Scatterhit2 seems to ignore dodge and armor rating, and they do stun damage, so they find themselves getting less reduction.
who is your post directed at exactly?
because im seeing basicly everything that I posted... only in a more organised manner 
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