Fencer Archive

Thread: Fencer Alternative Advancement Skills

EvilHairy
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:59 pm
#1

Alternative Advancement Skills


Massively multi-player online role-playing game (MMORPG); need to give players things to do in their game. This is accomplished in two ways, using progressive advancement and content. These two items have to be present to keep an "end game" in their world. Without the end game, people get board of the game, and leave.


Star Wars Galaxies is finally on the road to adding enjoyable content its world however even with the content the other side of the formula is unbalanced. SWG lacks in progressive advancement. After you have full filled your characters template you have nothing left to advance on. In many cases, creating that template and getting all the skills takes a few days for the hard-core, a few weeks for the average player. Thus we are left with a new goal for the developers to work on. While content is the most important feature of any game, progressive advancement needs to be present.


This will eventually need to be addressed by the developers, it may be 3-6 months down the road, but it will need to get addressed by developers. One of Sony’s other MMORPG’s added progressive advancement in the terms of Alternative Advancement points. This game was called Ever Quest. To say the least, the system worked, you delegated however much exp you wanted into a new "skill point" system after you obtained a certain level.


This can work in Star Wars Galaxies also. Alternative Advancement might be the most streamline thing to add to the game, rather then elite-elite professions. I propose a system to the developers and players of Star Wars Galaxies. As a player, I have mastered many professions and played out many more. I personally think that an AA system will work in SWG.


How would a AA system work out in SWG? Well that’s some of the questions we want to kink out. The system I thought of is to make it so that AA points only are accessible to players who have mastered a profession. Each profession will have there own set of AA skills. Along with a universal set of AA Skills that everybody has. Even a Racial set of AA points that you can earn. Perhaps even a Faction AA points.


AA skills primarily are the same skills that you can get from skill tapes. Dodge, Melee Defense, Rifle Speed, Weapon experimentation, Armor Repair, creature level ect. Along with new skills that have never before been in the game. There should be profession specific AA skills that can only be gained in certain profession


Purchasing AA skills require experience, like pistol experience, combat experience, weapon crafting experience. Each AA point should require different types of experience logically. Like rifle speed should not require pistol experience, and weapon experimentation should require combat exp.


AA points should be expensive, EXP wise, starting out double of the top tier skill of that profession. Example: The first Master Pistoleer AA point would cost 900,000 pistol exp. As you gain more AA points the cost should increase. How much should it increase? I’m thinking 10-20% each skill.


Learning a AA skill grants additional skill mods to your character template. Putting 1 AA skill points into say: Pistoleer Speed. Will give you +1 to your Pistol Speed Skill. Putting additional AA points into Pistoleer Speed will add to that your character template.


Should there be a cap on the amount of AA points a player can earn? Say 50 per master profession? Or should it cost 1 skill point out of your 250 skill points for 1 AA point?


With the help of the community lets work out some cool ideals for each profession on what AA points they can get, what racial ones we can come up with one, the universal ones too. Also we should work out the few questions throughout the post.


What Specific AA Skills should Fencers have?


What new AA skills can you think of?


How much should they cost?


Should there be a cap on the amount of AA points a player can earn? Or should they cost skill points to learn?


Should the additional AA skills not count towards the max increase skill mods? (IE: +25 Pistol Speed is the most you can add with clothing attachments and then another +25 with the AA points for +50!, or should it be max at 25)





Jorgan Bradwisch
~ Master Weapon Smith/ Artisan/ Architect ~

~ Dark Star Syndicate Trade Corp. ~
"I only have one rule, it is: Dont break the first rule."

NeocCryur
Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:50 am
#2

It will always be capped at +25, this is another way stopping players becoming god. For example plus 25 in AA to One handed damage, and plus 25 in CA One handed damage. Would be a increase of 50% on your total damage, as you can see from that. You would be hitting too hard in PVP, and with a acklay stun baton.. *Shiver*



----- Neoc Cryur
Tlk
Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:55 am
#3

I like it, although with the space expansion it may be a bit premature to suggest different ways to advance. I simpler way to at least start with is to actually add benefits to the GCW rank one attains. But in the long run, a AA skill would be great (at least from my PvE, casual player perspective).
Auhal
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:32 pm
#4

The only thing I can see wrong with this, is that people will max out their "AA" and then be back to the same problem. As stated above, they will be God, but so will everyone else who is pvping - as no one will do it before they master the AA skills.



STARSIDER ORAS HAUKES / RAUL HAUKES INFINITY AVAV / AUHAL
TottDonetta
Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:00 pm
#5

i agree with your sentiments, in their desire to make this game more open to casual players i think they have drasticaly reduced the overall longevity to every player. i do however agree with the way the current profession sysytem is setup, i like the flexibilty to drop a profession if it doesnt work out for me and pick up another profession without restarting my character. SOE missed out on the oppurtunity to have both tho. i wouldnt have minded starting out as a novice scout AND a level 1 twi-lek. that way we could have kept the flexibilty and the longevity especialy if the number of skill points you had was also linked to yourprogression. a level 1 char could start with only 50 skill points and worked there way up to 250 when they were at level 60 or 70, then once you werelevel 90 or100 you could get a few more skill points (taking you up to about 265 or 270). species abilities such as equilibrium or wookie roar and many more, as wellasincreases in HAM or resistscould be added liberaly through species progression. if the xp used for this was a new type of xp that was based on the normal xp rewarded, increased by the number of people your grouped withthen we could have seen some actual socialisng in this game above and beying the solo group (unless you totaly remove all need to grind, any kind of socialising has to be enforced or encouraged by reward, at the moment the way groups work you're actualy punished for socialising ina MMO!)


Asfor the ideas for AA they would be cool, maybe using just a small amount of skill points (1 each) and a very large amount of xp they could be an ideal solution not just to stagnation but to those annoying 2 or 3 skill poiints that seem to be left over with quite a few of the templates! if each skill had several options and you were only allowed to choose a few (i.e 8 options andyou can choose 5 max) it should stop the god players and still create more unique characters.

many RPG games have merits and flaws that could be perfect for this. it would allow professions such as fencer, pistoleer and others to dual wield, gain interesting role playing twists etc. if merits/AA's were introduced, some linked to professions, some to species and some in just a general pool they could really add some depth to the characters that we play.


the main problem with the current game tho is thatall the quests are simply a few destroy/deliver missions (presumably to cater to the casual players) and we have yet to see anything of substance (please dont mention the force sensitive quests, half an hour of questing followed by three weeks of grinding, please!) until they come up with some kind of quest that requires anything more than just getting buffed to succeed i cant see improvement or alterations like this making any kind of impact.



Tott Donetta

The liver is EVIL and must be punished!


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Daigoro202
Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:19 pm
#6

What about a factional development system that worked like the current force-sensitive trees?


Just talking about combat for starters, what about a combat tree for Rebel, Imperial, and something like Privateer?


They would give either the same bonuses, or bonuses that were roughly equivalent in skill point value, and would have specials that were thematic in nature:



  • Advanced Rebel trainingmight suggest a skilled guerilla/insurrectionist, with say two branches for melee development and two for ranged. The fighting style might suggest stealth, so maybe something like a first strike ability, sort of a conceal shot for melee.

  • Advanced Imperial training could create the air of a soldier that was not just an infantry grunt, but more of a moreformallytrained officer, with expeience in highly regimented combat. An advantage in groups?

  • Advanced Privateer training might involve street tactics, kind of like dirty fighting for melee, and also skills that were in line with the novice brawler tree-- warcry3, intimidate3.


That's just the melee boxes, you could have ranged boxes, maybe even crafting and healing boxes.


Maybe people aren't so interested in this breaking down among factions. But it would give people a choice, maybe in addition to, or instead of, the force-sensitive route. I know many people don't lke the fact that after master, there's no way to really progress.


In addition, you could further define your template-- when someone says they're a Rebel Fencer, it will really mean something, an Imperial TKA would be a dangerous fighter with a strange and interesting story.






_______________

received: from unknown (swg.eclipse.daigoro)

TottDonetta
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:34 am
#7

you mean like faction specific elite professions? like rebel spy, imperial guardsman, hutt thug, blacksun vigo, corsec investigator etc. cool idea!



Tott Donetta

The liver is EVIL and must be punished!


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Minerunner
Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:31 am
#8

I've been pushing for what ammount to Elite Elite Professions for a Long time. (See my Blade Dancer Skill Tree for example)

Though the development time is not availible to do such a thing now it isn't being ignored by SOE as a possibility.

A method of further specializing in professions would even be in line with their vision for the new Combat Upgrade and thus would fit in well in further updates.



Roogah Heeveah : Starsider, Alien Master of the Force : Roleplayer
Leoaf Be'lya : Bothan Ace Alliance Pilot : Eclipse
Minerunner : Test Center


"Cast aside your preconceptions and you will be delivered from this sin of assumption."
Minerunner
Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:03 pm
#9

What that is saying is that with the combat Upgrade we will see far more specialization among the professions. Which as an aside not related to the Combat Upgrade makes it that much more reasonable in the future to focus on more specialized advancment that draws away from diverse templates and makes more specialized professions still.


Any development on this line would not take place at least within the next year or longer however.



Roogah Heeveah : Starsider, Alien Master of the Force : Roleplayer
Leoaf Be'lya : Bothan Ace Alliance Pilot : Eclipse
Minerunner : Test Center


"Cast aside your preconceptions and you will be delivered from this sin of assumption."
Vaelore
Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:46 am
#10

Is that saying that some of these ideas or variation of may be available in the upcoming Combat Update?



Nemesis' Resident
Master doctor-Master Swordsman
Remnants of Honor

JYou're not invited to my island, so dont askJ



Tlk
Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:14 am
#11

Any idea Minerunner when we will see the docs? That may help alot, I have completed my main, my jedi is on the knight trials, I am quickly becoming bored and annoyed with this game. Knowing what these "changes" actaully will be will decide whether I stay or go (and JtL is not worth staying in my opinion). Lots of people had good ideas like the original poster on how to make this game better, but in the end, it appears to be just too massive of an undertaking to do it well. No offense to you or the other correspondants, but I really don't think much will come from this combat revamp. Seeing JtL Beta, recent revamps of other systems, the record does not seem to agree that "ideas" and "development" (no matter how good on paper) will result in fruitful rewards.


Its a negative time for me in SWG, so much potential, so disappointing...
chekson
Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:18 am
#12

only problem is the only AA damage mods that actually work are for unarmed damage, all the others are broken mods.



Bubrig- Ex Elder Jedi gone Spy.
Blahblahbacca- Wookie dance master.
TottDonetta
Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:58 pm
#13






chekson wrote:

only problem is the only AA damage mods that actually work are for unarmed damage, all the others are broken mods.






sigh. read the entire thread please, were talking about Altrenative Advancements, not armour attachments!



Tott Donetta

The liver is EVIL and must be punished!


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