Fencer Archive
Thread: Fencer Issues and Concerns
Since there is not an active correspondant to take this initiative, I might as well especially since I am curious.
Use this thread to list all the issues you have with Fencer, what you think needs to be looked at, what you think needs to be fixed, etc etc.
Please leave out PVP VS MELEE concerns.
1) Increase Lunge distance *beg*
2) Increase max range distance of weapons to 5 meters
3) Increase Master Fencer1hand Toughness to +36 instead of +24
4) Fix Combat studder
5) Fix moving combat
Even aside from pvp I think that a melee-distance version of /follow to approach and keep distance on a target is needed. Flying targets or large groups of oversize targets can completely frustrate melee attacks just because it is so hard to track a target in a laggy setting. Sorting out the correct targetand closing with it generally is just too difficult to accomplish in confused fights especially in comparison with the task facing ranged weapon users. Having the option to target directly from the radar map by mouse would not be a bad thing either.
To add to the replies above which I agree on.
#1 Something needs to be adjusted speed-wise in the melee field, because a Master Swordsman should not be able to be as fast as a Master Fencer. As a Master Brawlerwith one block till Blademaster, and alittle speed enhancement, a sword of 2.1 speed is the fastest I can use or else its just a waste. While a Swordsman can catch a good speed slice on his AR2 curved sword and easliy get it below 2 speed and reach the speed cap quite easily, which makes for one melee class far better than the rest.
#2 We need a more Elite AR type weapon to compete. The Vibro Blade is nothing more than a set-up weapon, because a well sliced curved sword will do more damage than the vibro blade, even on a light armoured enemy, I mean 220 damage with 2.3 speed beats the VB 175 dmage 2.6 speed everyday in my experience, so to make a long story short we need a better weapon.
Marul Lypor'tey Starsider
Master CH, Master Brawler, almost Blademaster
Ok some of this they have said they are working on
Increased lunge distance: Doubtful, pikeman need this more
Increased one hand toughness: doubtful, we already have more than pikemen get
Would like to see a skill added to counter attack and knockdown. Since we are a profession of footwork and grace why not allow us the ability to use our emeny's against them selves and trip them selves up? Would like to see more combo type attacks that we could link together against tougher mobs such as elite skills for example,maybe super fast repeated slashes attack ( I'm thinkingsomething like finial fantasly 7 without all the jumping arround the screen)We deff need more weapons to choose from and more custumization of how they look.
Is it me or are we frikken hosed as melee fighters getting hit for 600-1200 a whack when the ranged people can sit back and suppression fire or knockdown attack all day and hardly get hit at all? Not to mention the Health shot or bleed shots that may help out in a fight but we just get pummeled instead while they hide behind a rock or something letting the mobs bleed away.
would like a better armor more suited for fencers sort of like Padded but more of a suit Looks kinda silly as fast as we are supposed to be with chitian armor on( just a pet peev of mine,I think of fencers more as swashbucklersI guess)
FinallyI know been brought up before but at the minumum allow master status persons whether be pistoleer or fencer to dual weild weapons. Esp if they are gonna gank our class the way the do against the others.
/follow needs to be fixed for melees...an addition to the command like /follow <distance> would be so nice because as of right now the /follow puts us way too close to target making our "range modifiyers" useless on a weapon.
Also, you might want to look for a thread similar to this one started some time last week, there was a lot of good suggestions in it as well.
cheers
Eventually, we will have a new correspondent, and will have a chance to get our “issues” in front of the developers. We may want to look at within our own profession before we try getting "balanced". I'd like to see how we would function if all of our abilities worked properly. Once we have that, then we would be in a better position to try and balance our profession against the others.
I’m going to do a detailed analysis of what all the Fencer profession has going for it, both good and bad, and then ask for you feedback on which we want to focus on getting fixed first.
First, let’s list the results of the complete Fencer profession package:
One-Hand Weapon Accuracy: +110 (+115 w/ Master Brawler)
One-Hand Weapon Speed: +90 (+95 w/ Master Brawler)
One-Hand Weapon Toughness: +18 (+23 w/ Master Brawler)
Dodge: +25
Melee Defense: +24 (+29 w/ Master Brawler)
Ranged Defense: +19 (+2 w/ Master Brawler)
Combat Equilibrium: +30
Alertness: +10
Taunt: +10 (+40 w/ Master Brawler)
Defense vs. Knockdown: +40
Defense vs. Posture Change (Down): +40
Defense vs. Blind: +20
Defense vs. Dizzy: +20
Defense vs. Intimidate: +20
CMD Berzerk1 (Berserk2 w/ Master Brawler)
CMD Intimidate1 (Intimidate2 w/ Master Brawler)
CMD BlindHit1 & 2
CMD Hit1, 2, & 3
CMD BodyHit1, 2, & 3
CMD DizzyHit1 & 2
CMD HealthHit1 & 2
CMD Lunge1 (Lunge2 w/ Master Brawler)
CMD SpinAttack1 & 2
CMD ScatterHit1 & 2
CMD Taunt
CMD Warcry1 (Warcry2 w/ Master Brawler)
Dagger Certification
Sword Certification
Curved Sword Certification
Gaderiffi Baton Certification
Vibroblade Certification
Ryyk Blade Certification
Rantok Sword Certification
Stun Baton Certification
Next, let’s analyze each item in turn, based on available sources and experimentation as see how each thing stands.
One-Hand Weapon Accuracy: +110 (+115 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
This modifier is intended to reflect our odds of striking our opponent. From this percentile other modifiers are applied:
1.Our own weapon accuracy modifiers
2.Various situational and movement modifiers
The final result indicates our change to hit.
Analysis:
I don’t have any real issue with our chance to hit. At the upper end of the accuracy range, I rarely seem to miss on even-con opponents. Still, we do miss enough times to be noticeable. If other areas cannot be repaired satisfactorily then this may be an avenue we can pursue improving.
One-Hand Weapon Speed: +90 (+95 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
This modifier is intended to reduce the time interval between our attacks. The way it appears to be currently functioning is to reduce the base delay (listed as “speed” on the weapon) of the weapon you are wielding by 1% for each +1 of the modifier. The higher the modifier goes, the closer your weapon delay gets to zero. Therefore, a weapon with a speed of 4 with a modifier of +50 will have an effective speed of 2.
However, there is currently a 1.0 second cap on the final adjusted speed of a weapon. This means that once your weapon delay is reduced to a number lower than 1.0, it will be truncated to 1 whole second. So a weapon with a base speed of 3 wielded by a Fencer with a +70 modifier would not have an ending speed of 0.9 as calculated, but only a 1.0.
Analysis:
This is one of our biggest handicaps as a Fencer. Our weapons by default are already quite fast, but with a reduced base damage output to “compensate”. Most of our crafted swords have speeds in the range of 1.8 to 2.5 seconds (with an average around 2.0 for a quality weapon) which does not put us in a position to make good use of our modifiers. With a 2.0 speed weapon we only need the first +80 modifier to be able to perform even our slowest (x2.5 delay) special attacks at the 1.0 second speed cap. Most of us know that these aren’t the special moves we use them most frequently. Our most common special moves only have a delay of x1.5 and x2.0. Using a 2.0 sword for a special with a x2.0 delay only requires a modifier of +75 to reach the speed cap. This wastes a significant chunk of our available modifier.
To compensate for this a choice would be to grab weapons with a high delay (since by the time we reach the +95 modifier practically any delay would cap at 1.0) and high average damage. Unfortunately NONE of the available Fencer weapons are designed like this. We are currently sandwiched between our naturally high-speed low-damage sword stats and a 1.0 speed cap, severely crippling our damage output compared to professions using high-damage weapons whose delay is also modified down to the cap.
Possible solutions:
1.Remove the 1.0 second speed cap, and let our speed modifiers do their job. Game engine mechanics might prohibit this being an option though.
2.Since we were “designed” to compensate for low-damage weapons by having a higher speed, yet can’t due to current limitations, let our speed be reflected in another manner. Or example, give Fencers a chance to “double-strike” during a single normal attack. The chance can grow as they progress through the Fencer skill tree, beginning at a modest 5-10% and progressing up to 60-70%. Even at 70% Master Fencers would still be doing approximately 25% less damage than a Master Pikeman, for example. That still just during normal strikes, as they would pull away again if performing their specials.
3.Something else?
One-Hand Weapon Toughness: +18 (+23 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
I have heard few different descriptions of this modifier. One suggestion states that it reduces HAM costs of using our specials with our weapons. However, I have not been able to reproduce any evidence of this.
There is significant evidence that it stacks with our standard Melee Defense and Ranged Defense, but only when our weapon is equipped. This is why you take less damage when you have a one-hand weapon equipped than when you don’t, or when you have a weapon equipped that you have a lesser Toughness with. See the description of Melee Defense below.
Analysis:
Toughness seems to be working just fine. It’s too bad we don’t have more of it. Fencers don’t have as much Toughness as our melee peer professions because we were not meant to soak up the damage, but to avoid it. IE: Dodge. (See below)
However, since Dodge is currently next to useless this might be an area we could consider beefing up. Still, I’d prefer to avoid an attack altogether rather than mitigate it.
Dodge: +25
Description:
This modifier is supposed to determine your odds of dodging an incoming attack. Currently is occurs too rarely to tell if it is a percentile or not. When you do dodge, it is obvious in the game. With a full +25 dodge you will see yourself dodge an attack perhaps once for every 2-3 fights you are in. Of course, that depends on the length of the fight.
Analysis:
This is supposed to be one of our big defenses; part of our compensation for not dealing as much damage as our peers, and for having a weaker Toughness. However, it does not function often enough to even be noticed. As such, it is virtually useless as is.
Possible solutions:
1.Up our frequency of Dodge so that it can come into play at least once per fight. Dodging a single attack once a fight is not going to greatly tip the scales, but will help a little on those fights where it comes down to the wire. Optimally, up our rate of dodge to the point where we dodge a significant proportion of incoming attacks. It wouldn’t matter as much that we do less than half the damage of our peers in a set period of time if we could live long enough to make up for it.
2.Something else?
Melee Defense: +24 (+29 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
This modifier adjusts the damage taken from melee attacks by 1% for each +1. So at +24 we negate close to 25% of incoming melee damage. Once earned it does not matter if you are holding your weapon or not, and it stacks with Melee Defense earned from any other profession. This is why you don’t get hurt as bad as you did when you were a newbie even when you don’t have your sword in hand. This also stacks with Toughness whenever you have that weapon equipped. There is also the possibility that this modifies your chances of being hit with a melee weapon, but that hasn’t been verified.
Analysis:
Melee Defense seems to be working just fine, especially since it seems to stack with One-Hand Toughness when the weapon is equipped, and Melee Defense earned from any other profession. There was some speculation that there may be a cap on Melee Defense, but the developers have promised us that there is not. If you feel you need more Melee Defense look into some of the other professions and find one that has good Melee Defense to add to what you got as a Fencer.
Ranged Defense: +19 (+2 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
Except that it applies to incoming ranged attacks, this is identical to Melee Defense.
Analysis:
Although it doesn’t seem too very realistic to be absorbing laser blasts with a long thin hunk of metal, this might be an area where we could boost our protection from ranged attacks. +19 is a pitifully low number. If we can’t get this raised I can understand the logic.
Combat Equilibrium: +30
Description:
This helps to determine how long it takes us to get up from being Knocked Down, and our likelihood of falling down when Dizzy.
Analysis:
We are supposed to be light on our feet, graceful, balanced…. You know, like the Three Musketeers. It’s very hard to tell if this is working or not, given the randomness of falling down when Dizzy, and recovering from KD. It stacks with the Combat Equilibrium that you get from any other profession, so you can always get more.
Alertness: +10
Description:
This is supposed to modify the odds that you will not be affected by conceal/surprise shots.
Analysis:
I’m sorry that I don’t have any real data on this, so I can’t submit and opinion. Perhaps someone else has had more experience seeing this have an influence. I’m not hit with surprise shots that often, and if I have been I certainly haven’t noticed a reduction in them. /shrug Wasted modifier if you ask me. I’d rather have something more useful.
Taunt: +10 (+40 w/ Master Brawler)
Description:
This modifies the success rate of the Taunt command you received as a Novice Brawler.
Analysis:
See “CMD Taunt” below.
Defense vs. Knockdown: +40
Description:
This is supposed to decrease your odds of actually suffering a Knock Down when subjected to that form of attack.
Analysis:
In my experience and from the experiences I have gathered from others, is that this is either completely broken, or the other modifiers are just too extreme. Like Dodge, this is supposed to be one of our big defenses; still I have yet to avoid an intended Knock Down during testing with any type of dependability. I like the idea, but it needs to be repaired or adjusted to actually mean something. If this can’t or won’t be fixed, let us trade it in for something useful.
Possible solutions:
1.Fix the coding on Knock Down defense so that it functions.
2.If it is functioning, then the impact per +10 Knockdown Defense needs to be increased significantly.
3.Something else?
Defense vs. Posture Change (Down): +40
Description:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down, except related to Posture Changing specials that push us into a lower posture.
Analysis:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down.
Defense vs. Blind: +20
Description:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down, except related to Blinding effect attached to some specials.
Analysis:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down
Defense vs. Dizzy: +20
Description:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down, except related to the Dizzy effect attached to some specials.
Analysis:
Same as Defense vs. Knock Down
End of Part I
The Defense vs Series is just silly broken/not in effect at all.
After I made master fencer I ran out with a bounty hunter friend of mine to test the knockdown percentage rate.
It doesn't exist.
After 50 knockdown attempts I resisted 5. _5_ Thats a 10% chance as a Master Fencer to avoid being knocked over. Also, I never resisted being dizzied or blinded. Combat Equilibirum states that it helps your chance of auto recoverying. I never noticed any such auto recovery.
Also, as we all know Dodge is 100% broken as well. in those 50 knockdown attempts I never dodged once.
Your information on lunge 2 is innacurate. I can open a fight with lunge 2 against a red mob (I solo'd a Mokk Herbalist this morning to prove it to myself) and as long as I make sure to refresh it every 7-8 seconds the mob never swings on me. I don't know if this is intended or not. but that is how it works in practice.
The information on weapons is Spot on. I made friends with a Master artisian and now order action cost reduction/minumum damage power ups by the crate load to use for my curved sword. But I only use it in duels for show now. I use my Vibroblade at all other times, otherwise I kill myself using specials.
Other than the lunge information everything else was great, and I 99% agree with your analysis /grin.
Player of Evia - Blademaster - Kettemoor
Heya 
One-Hand Weapon Toughness: +18 (+23 w/ Master Brawler)
How do you get this number? When I add them up I get to +32 (and cant see any additional mods at Master Brawler).
Mirazul.
Everyone that want an edit button raise their hands! 
I see the +5 to 1h melee toughness at Master Brawler ingame now (wasnt listed at the web based char-builder I was looking at) sowwy.
However, using ingame numbers I get to +32 at master fencer and +37 with master brawler......
Its late, maybe I overlooked something again 
Mirazul.
Simple goof, same as you. I had alot to type and not much time to type. I just slipped up and didn't add the points correctly. =)
~Lyahpar~
La Femme Fencer
"Thrust if you love Fencers!"
The defense knockdown seris is in effect. I have a nounty hunter friend too and for every 3 to 4 knockdowns he tried he kncoked me down successful once. Then when he knocked me down, I would stand back up right away> I hav also tested this in PVP, players couldnt keep me knockdown, i would no fall or i would just stand back up and i only have advance footwork. SO i think the statement that defense vs seris isnt active is false because it is working for me and helping a lot.
My issues are this HAM cost should be lowered or shifted, i think we take too much mind damage on certain speicals and feel it should mainly be action.
Rantok, make it craftable or make the one in jabbas missons stronger.
Stun baton...do i have to say more
Now my main issue, our specials blow after tier one....as you know spin attack 2 and blind hit 2 are the same. Spin attack 2 should cause another status effect not blind, maybe posture change on group or knockdown( finger crosses) .