Fencer Archive

(Note: I'm reposting this from the Pikemen board just because the fencer board seems to be more active)

I have been desperately wanting to get away from the flock of trigger pulling lemmings and join the ranks of the melee fighters for a long time now but I keep hesitating from the yells of weakness when it comes to fighting ranged combat.

Raph Koster made some comments awhile back that "You shouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight". That is absolutely right. Start a fight at 60m from someone that knows you are there and that has a gun and you are screwed plain and simple. Yes, its a game, balance is important, yes yes yes...but the game becomes a little too far fetched (yes, even for star wars standards) if you completely balance melee vs. guns from that standpoint.

But there in lies the exact problem we are dealing with...thats the only standpoint we are looking at.

Guns have been around since the 1800s but every soldier in the army carries knives and the earliest guns were even equipped with knives on them. The bottom line is, a wise soldier will find ways to kill with just about any weapon, even though some are more idiot proof than others.

I guarantee you do not want to be at 2m with an opponent holding a sword even if you do have a gun, the odds are against you. So the question isn't how to make us even with ranged, its how to give us better tools to close the distance.

The gun wielders should try to kite melee. They should try to stay the hell away. If you had a gun and someone charged you with a big sword/staff/chainsaw/whatever wouldn't you run the hell away until you saw them fall? If you don't, you deserve to be dead. On the flip side, what kind of self respecting sword/staff/chainsaw/whatever wielder is foolish enough to charge a ranged weapon right down an open line of fire? Using cover, stealth, and ambush type tactics is exactly the strategy of a melee based combatant vs. a ranged. Close the distance by sneaking, defending, or evading, then once you are in close, do your thing.

The problems SWG presents? A radar for one. How the hell do you sneak up behind someone when their convienient radar shows a big glaring red dot? The higher you advance in a melee skill should hinder the distance you show up on radar and force enemies to spot you with regular line of sight.

Ah, line of sight, another problem. So you cunning little pikemen you, you ducked behind the corner of a building and are just waiting for that little carbineer to circle the corner and get whats coming to him...**edit** he is shooting you through the building!? That needs to be fixed.

The beauty, and challenge of a melee class is being able to overcome the distance and somehow it needs to be implemented to allow a circumvent of a ranged combatants most obvious defense, distance. Until SWG addresses that, melee will always be 2nd tier on the food chain.

Instead of wishing you can charge through the blaster fire and take the punishment, think of ways to improve melee by closing the range, and once that ranged is closed, there should be no question who is boss.

By todays RL standards, which tactically is more advanced than whats been portrayed in the Star Wars universe, melee weaponry is still a formidable asset when used correctly, SWG needs to focus on giving us opportunity to do just that.

In conclusion, the idea of "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" is absolutely correct. However, the same can be said of "Don't bring a gun to a knife fight". Give melee a realistic opportunity to close the distance or mechanics that allow ambushes or taking defensive cover or movement tactics such as flanking or other surprise manuvers and then we can all be happy.

$.02 from a different perspective,

Stile

Is what would be nice would be some sort of short term (5 seconds?) low HAM cost version of burst run. You would still have to brave the gunfire, but you would be able to close to melee range in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe a dumb idea, but an idea none the less.

Nice post. All I can add is if you intend to PvP seriously, you better find yourself lots of outdoor rocks and other movement obstructions or don't leave the buildings. =X

With lunches and such, we can hit from quite a few meters away. So if they kite us, burst run and /follow them. The only problem with this method is that we can't attack while moving: they can. However, most melee fights have a lot of movement in them, because the kinetics behind moving increase the damage a blow costs. We just need to be able to attack while moving.

Good post! I would prefer a stealth/ambush skill over a charge/rush skill however. It seems more logcial, tactical, fun, and balanced.

Nice post. I think you have the right mindset about giving fencers improvements.

The thing I would really like to see is being able to run at a target and dodge a few shots here and there. I belive dodge could be a great asset if it was working correctly or better. (Not sure what the status of Dodge is now).

Also I think we should be put being able to attack while moving, to the top of the list. I think the Devs have mentioned they are looking into maybe (think they mentioned it having to do with minor lag or sever responses, I don't know), but we should really beat it into the ground.

here's an idea: Take knockdown skills away from ranged people.. oh wait, that would make sense...

How the hell is a pistol going to knock someone down? A rifle I can see... knock them down, then run away to get into your ideal range, and then blast them.. but pistol? against a sword? <bending over laughing animation>

If Im holding a sword, or a pike, or even unarmed,would't I be used to blocking with it? Wouldn't I just chop his / her **edit** arm off for getting it near my face in the first place? GET REAL :-p

Ranged should be exactly that... RANGED not one or two steps ahead of me, knocking me over, kiting me so they can pistol whip me, then take their time shooting me full of crazy red looking lights...

I say, make ranged people good at ranged, make them suck gonads when there close up, and take away their knockdown styles... That would even things out, and it would also make sense... which in my experience, things that makes sense never get done.