CUEmu - Thread Posts

LuapLink

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:07 am

With the combat revamp coming I started thinking about what Fencers are and what their role is. I've always thought of fencers are the acrobats of the melee group, fencers are nimble and quick (we are hard to hit) but we we can't do massive damage so we pick off our targets with status attacks and bleeds. I've always seen the fencer's role in a group almost a sniper we dodging in and out of the fight picking off the weak and distracted. But sometimes I hear Fencers refered to as tanks, a Tank to me is a character is someone that gets into a massive suit of armour and stands infront of the target taking damage so the rest of the group doesn't have to.

To me a fencer is not a tank but I was wondering what other people thought about it, what do other people think a Fencers combat role should be?

Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)

Eater-of-worlds

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:18 am

#2

A "tank", too me, is a person who distracts the enemy long enough for the other members of the group to kill the him. So it feels natural for me to call a fencer a "tank".

Tsibi Osvo
-"If it moves. Kill it. If it does'nt... make it move."
Master cannon fodder and MDK applier ultra

Tenant

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:20 am

#3

In EQ (and other MMO's) the term Tank was used to describe theclasses that have the best armour and most amount of Health and Damage mitigation. They can then stand toe2toe with some overpowered Mob that SOE has created doing very little damage and being healed in a chain of 6 or 7 Clerics doing Complete Heal. The may not live a second without them clerics but they should still live longer than any other Class would.

SWG is NOT EQ (although the Mobs/NPC's are sadly heading in that direction) armour isn't, for the most part, Profession specific. All Masters of a Melee profession get the same Mitigation. Toughness skilldoesn't really count so much as it is only in effect when unarmoured. So the diffence between Melee professions is their Defenses, the Fencer has the best making it the best choice for this role...Tank may be a miss leading term but the role of standing Toe2Toe with enemy and holding it's attention, positioning it where it needs to be and not getting squished in the process, is the same as was previously done by the Warrior in EQ, just with a different, we don't soak, we avoid.

We sacrifice Damage output for Defense so as we should be hit less we are ideal candidates to have the Mobs full attention, that is why I see our role as Tank, for want of a better word.

Well, I told you once, told you twice.

I told you before.

Just 'cause I'm the bad guy, don´t mean I'm gonna lose 'em all

The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my Guild, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary

LuapLink

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:34 am

#4

Originally Fencers were supposed to be low damage at high speed with Swordsmen being high damage at low speed, the problem is that speed is a mess that is supposed to be fixed in the combat revamp. The question then is what will fencers be when the devs fix things in the revamp.

One thing that they should do during the revamp is make toughness more important, atm it does not vary a great deal between melee professions but it would be nice if they did more with it. For example swordsmen run around with big weapons so they should be pretty strong and tough, so they would have high toughness to go with their low defense. So they would be hit more often but they would be able to shake off alot of the damage. Fencers would then have high defense but low toughness so they would be hit far less but when they feel it more.

Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)

Tenant

Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:41 am

#5

That's an interesting way of looking at toughness. Currently toughness only works unarmoured so all it does is encourage fighting without armour, which I like and I think there should be more bonuses for.

I suggested, on another forum, that Armour penalties to HAMs should be reduced (as the HAM cost for specials was being changed anyway) and penalties added to Skills instead, Helms reduce accuracy, Arms reduce speed, Legs/Feet lowerSecondary defenses (Dodge, Block, Counter) and Body Primary defense. Then, theprofessions that could be expected to wear armour are given a skill to reduce these penalties...A master BH, for example, having almost no penalty to wearing armour (I mean if there was a profession that needed some attention it is Bounty Hunter) this would mean there was truelya balance to be weighedwhen wearing armour or not.

Give Fencers and TK more advantages to not wearing armour and then Swordsmen and Pikemen the skill to reduce theirpenalties.Maybe give us moreStatus attacks and make themmore effective to High "level" Mobs/NPC's we could then take the role not so much as tanker but as spoiler or de-buffer. We still can't do much damage but can mess with the Mob/NPC....At the moment I can spam Dizzy or Blind on a Protector and kill them with only this move (consider how many hits that would take as fencer) andneither will ever stick. Given that the Cost of specials to HAM is to be changed to stop this spamming then they need to make it so we are actually able to get some use from the attacks.

I still see the role of the Fencer, in the current state of the game (ignoring the 100% accuracy of High end mobs) as the Tank, for reason stated earlier. But...With changes on the horizon maybe this will change and the role will change to the way you see it...I don't actually mind, just as long as we have a role in a group and are not the baggage we appear to be now.

Well, I told you once, told you twice.

I told you before.

Just 'cause I'm the bad guy, don´t mean I'm gonna lose 'em all

The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my Guild, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary

LuapLink

Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:19 am

#6

I agree about the armour, a long time ago the devs stated that they did not want everyone going around in armour. They said that you could but there would be disadvantages to it, so you could fight armoured and suffer penaties or unarmoured. The way they said it they implied that the advantages of wearing armour would be balanced with the advantages of fighting unarmoured. I like your idea about the disadvantages, I've always thought that there should have been movement/speed penaties for wearing armour. Another way of doing your system of having different professions having the ability neutralise the penaties would be do extend a system the devs have already done (well a little bit), armour certifications. Player armour would be split into 3 groups Light, Medium and Heavy armour, the professions would then have certs for these added to them, Fencers would get certed for Light armour whereas Commando and BH would get Heavy. You could still wear armour that you were not certed for but the penaties would be far greater.

Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)

Rizzaka

Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:28 am

#7

The way i view fencers in regards to the 'tank' profile we get is that its a very agile defense based not so much on soaking up damage but on avoiding it. I often reffer to the fencer prof. as a Tank myself but thats because i view a tank as someone who is there to prevent others from taking damage, this prevention can come in a variety of forms also and for a fencer it is dodge and such.

I have said and likely always will say (though don't quote me) that fencer is a finese proffession. We don't absorb the damage or dish it out greatly, we avoid and take advantage of weaknesses in the opponents defense.

thats my take on it at least

Drrty · Bothan of DOOOOOOOM
Zabuza · Demon of the Mist
· Prince of Endor ·
learn to adapt to the situation you have put your character in. i do not need to adapt my proffesion to accomodate yours.

Bluezeong14

Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:30 pm

#8

Fencer firstly shouldn't get any armor at all, exept maybe something that looks like cloth (Ubese, Mabari, Tantel) Armor should alsodecrease dodge ability along with other skills, like knockdown defense, and so on.

LuapLink

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:27 am

#9

Fencers seem to have been stuck with the duty of the tanksof any groups but what do people want fencers to be after the revamp? The devs won't tell us what they think fencers should be, everytime someone asks about what the devs vision of a profession is they turnround and ask what the community want it to be. Should we try to moveFencers away from being stuck as tanks and tryto get the profession turned more of finesse profession? the surgeons of the melee group, not hitting hard but knowing exactly where to hit.

Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)

PoppaBear

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:04 pm

#10

Personally, I view us as tanks...the folks who run in, keep the enemy occupied, while the others get the glory of the kill. As Drrty said, we're more finesse, in dealing status attacks and avoiding the enemies blows.

As far as armor is concerned, it would be nice to get profession-specific armor that boosts that professions given stats. BE clothing is fine for me, but I'd still like to see armor for us specifically.

Bilos Ode-a

Soldier of the Rebellion

LuapLink

Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:52 am

#11

I noticed that St.Gabriel has put up a post on what Swordsmen want to be after the Revamp, I was just wondering what Fencers want to be?

Orba Bunsen - Master Snuggler/Pistoleer(Test Center)
Oorba - Master Fencer/Brawler/Swordswookiee(Test Center)
Abor Ava - Master Commando(Test Center)

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