Fencer Archive
Thread: Stupid question about weapon speeds
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Entropism
Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:52 am
#1
What is the slowest weapon we can use while still hitting the 1 second speed cap at footwork 4?
Higginsis
Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:56 am
#2
I thinks it quite high, at master a can still get OHH 3 out at 1 sec with my 3.4 gaffi stick, so at footwork 4 i'd imagine it to be around 3.0.
Entropism
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:13 am
#3
The only reason I ask is because I'm thinking sleep deprived thoughts right now.....
Check this idea out: At footwork 4, I can pretty much alternate between 1hh 2 and bodyhit 2, load up the command window, and it comes out fluid, no delays, looks like 1 straight move. This is with a 280 max damage 3.5 gaffi. Can't get much faster than a ZERO delay between moves. So if we get weaponsmiths to make us slower weapons with more damage, we could get an increase in our hits without dipping past the speed cap.
Am I making sense, or do I REALLY need more sleep?
IdrisTycho
Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:03 am
#4
Without special loot items weaponsmiths can't make higher damage weapons than what you are currently using. My Gaffi currently is 290ish max damage, that's with an over 30% damage slice and about the best Gaffi stick a master weaponsmith can make using normal resources. They can't simply trade damage for speed. They already max out the damage(for their resources)using experimentation.
Right now the Gaffi can't really get any better, however after the Geonesian (sp?) mines open up, we can presumably use some new loot from there to improve our Gaffi and curved sword.
--Radric Tycho, Eclipse
Master (Fencer, Brawler, TK)
Rizzaka
Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:22 am
#5
I use a 3.6 spd gaffi and still cap out.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=fencer&message.id=10800
thats a link that will tell you how to calculate your speed, DPS, average damage, and TRUE average damage. Very Helpful post from our previous corrispondant.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=fencer&message.id=10800
thats a link that will tell you how to calculate your speed, DPS, average damage, and TRUE average damage. Very Helpful post from our previous corrispondant.
Entropism
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:28 pm
#6
Yeah, I ventured onto the weaponsmith's board to ask if it was possible and I got "Pfffft, that's like people asking to slice weapons twice, what a silly question!" Ummmmm.....yeah.
Hey, worth a shot right?
Ktzero3
Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:46 am
#7
Use this.
http://www.subterrane.com/swgcalcs.shtml
Originally posted by: subterrane.
Elan-Morin
Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:26 am
#8
The way it works now, as soon as you hit +100 to your speed modifier, you're going to hit once a second with anything no matter what your weapon speed/special attack delay is.
The formula is
((100 - speed modifier) / 100) * weapon speed
So if you have a +50 speed bonus and a 3.5 speed weapon:
((100 - 50) / 100) * 3.5 = 1.75
And a +100 speed bonus with the same weapon:
((100 - 100) / 100) * 3.5 = 0 (since 0 divided by anything is 0)
While this isn't going to help you do any more damage against a normal target, since weapon speed experimentation and damage experimentation are tied together (only one experimentation bar that affects both; experimenting on that bar generally increases damage and lowers speed), it does help a TON in PvP against people with high defenses. A weaponsmith can choose to use all or most of his experimentation points in the Range experimentation bar, which affects the weapon's accuracy modifiers at certain ranges. The higher your accuracy, obviously, the better chance you have of hitting someone, and the more DPS you're shelling out even though your weapon's damage rating is substandard. Consider the following scenario:
A stun baton with +5 accuracy bonuses at 0m, 3m, and 5m, on top of the +150 (? I think, I'm not ingame at the moment so I can't check) native accuracy we get at Blademaster. That's +155 total accuracy, against a non-moving target. Now, suppose you engage another player with +150 melee defense. Since I don't have the formula close to hand and can't be arsed to find it, I'm just going to do a rough guesstimate. Here's a typical 10-attack scenario (1 attack per second, naturally):
miss
miss
miss
miss
hit for 150 damage
miss
miss
miss
hit for 140 damage
miss
That's 290 damage total, 29 DPS.
Now, say you have a stun baton that's had all experimentation points possible put into Range, resulting in a weapon with +30 +50 +20 0m 3m 4m accuracy modifiers. Here's what happens in that situation:
hit for 100 damage
hit for 110 damage
hit for 90 damage
miss
miss
miss
hit for 80 damage
hit for 100 damage
miss
hit for 75 damage
That's 555 damage over a 10 second period, or 55.5 DPS.
The reason I went on so long about this is because it is a VERY overlooked aspect of weaponsmithing and combat. People typically only care about the damage and speed stats on their weapons. While very important in many situations, those stats are not the be-all and end-all of your weapon's quality. After figuring this out, I went to my guild's weaponsmith and asked him to make me a range of weapons with maxed out Range experimentation. The only time I ever use them is when I'm fighting another defense stacker in PvP; it more or less negates that defensive advantage.
The formula is
((100 - speed modifier) / 100) * weapon speed
So if you have a +50 speed bonus and a 3.5 speed weapon:
((100 - 50) / 100) * 3.5 = 1.75
And a +100 speed bonus with the same weapon:
((100 - 100) / 100) * 3.5 = 0 (since 0 divided by anything is 0)
While this isn't going to help you do any more damage against a normal target, since weapon speed experimentation and damage experimentation are tied together (only one experimentation bar that affects both; experimenting on that bar generally increases damage and lowers speed), it does help a TON in PvP against people with high defenses. A weaponsmith can choose to use all or most of his experimentation points in the Range experimentation bar, which affects the weapon's accuracy modifiers at certain ranges. The higher your accuracy, obviously, the better chance you have of hitting someone, and the more DPS you're shelling out even though your weapon's damage rating is substandard. Consider the following scenario:
A stun baton with +5 accuracy bonuses at 0m, 3m, and 5m, on top of the +150 (? I think, I'm not ingame at the moment so I can't check) native accuracy we get at Blademaster. That's +155 total accuracy, against a non-moving target. Now, suppose you engage another player with +150 melee defense. Since I don't have the formula close to hand and can't be arsed to find it, I'm just going to do a rough guesstimate. Here's a typical 10-attack scenario (1 attack per second, naturally):
miss
miss
miss
miss
hit for 150 damage
miss
miss
miss
hit for 140 damage
miss
That's 290 damage total, 29 DPS.
Now, say you have a stun baton that's had all experimentation points possible put into Range, resulting in a weapon with +30 +50 +20 0m 3m 4m accuracy modifiers. Here's what happens in that situation:
hit for 100 damage
hit for 110 damage
hit for 90 damage
miss
miss
miss
hit for 80 damage
hit for 100 damage
miss
hit for 75 damage
That's 555 damage over a 10 second period, or 55.5 DPS.
The reason I went on so long about this is because it is a VERY overlooked aspect of weaponsmithing and combat. People typically only care about the damage and speed stats on their weapons. While very important in many situations, those stats are not the be-all and end-all of your weapon's quality. After figuring this out, I went to my guild's weaponsmith and asked him to make me a range of weapons with maxed out Range experimentation. The only time I ever use them is when I'm fighting another defense stacker in PvP; it more or less negates that defensive advantage.
Ktzero3
Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:33 am
#9
Wow, that was some very useful information and it opened up a new world to me, almost... however doesn't Fencer give a lot of + to accuracy? I hardly see that many misses... unless you're strictly talking PvP, in that case I'll shut up... lol i know nothing about PvP.
Elan-Morin
Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:37 am
#10
Yeah, we have pretty high accuracy, and in general it's way more than enough for any PvE scenario. But when it's time to PvP, you run into players who've stacked their defenses sky-high. It's possible to bump melee and ranged defense up around +200, I believe. That is extremely hard to hit. With our +150 accuracy on top of a +50 or +70 experimented accuracy weapon, that super-high defense turns into a disadvantage for the stacker, since he's sacrificed a lot of offensive power to get those defenses.
kahiko
Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:20 am
#11
I'm imagining/wondering how different the numbers would be..per successful hit, after maxxed out ranged experimentation, and then getting a lucky roll with a 30% damage slice 
kahiko
Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:01 pm
#12
Sammadet wrote:
Buy weapons in crates/large quantities and then get them sliced
Besides they're gonna fix the random slicing...
I mean how random is it if a piece of armor gets lighter (enc slice) or gets another layer (eff slice)
its just stupid =P
Is there a specific threadreferencing "Besides they're gonna fix the random slicing..."?
I've checked the In- Concept, Developement, Live etc...
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