Fencer Archive
Thread: Questions/Thoughts about the impending Dodge nerf...
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OMFGMANSLAYER
Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:49 am
#3
Vampiri wrote:Master Fencer + Pistoleer Dodge Line i guess
105+105 = 210 hes almost master so yea, then CoB to double that baby and its 420 dodge
Tlk
Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:50 am
#4
It won't be as bad as you think, ranged weapons willbe correctly penialized for there range modifiers/being attacked by melee. The problem we will have will be closing which is as it should be. As the combat balances continue to come out, we just have to have faith that when it comes to PvP we will all eventually have the same dps, whether that be from capping speeds or changing weapon stats. There are always other things you can do too. There is ranged/melee defense and ranged/melee dmg mitigation. There is defence acuity from TKM (does it work?).Until the complete combat passes are done, there will always be some factors that aren't fair. We just need to wait another month or so to see what happens.
BuzzardBoy
Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:31 pm
#5
Is there somewhere I can get a bunch of info on this or has anyone on TC tested it all out?
As far as I know, this is really only going to affect us, because I've never heardof any Counterattack or Block stackers, and Ranged/Melee Defenses were not listed as being capped. However, I have heard that they are, can someone clear this up? This nerf looks like its really going to cripple us, too, and I see it as completely unfair. First, no offensive mods are being nerfed, so a BH/Pistoleers can still have +155 Accuracy. I, a Master Pistoleer/2444 Fencer(soon to be master), have tested this a little, and I get hit quite often, even with CoB and 195 Dodge. Also, TKMs have a ridiculous +205 Unarmed Accuracy(not to mention about 250 unarmed damage), and they hit me a lot more than they miss, probably about 75/25, so they will absolutely dominate even more than they do now. They also hit 3 times per second it seems like.
Thereason the DEVs list for this nerf is to prevent near-unhittable players, but I don't understand why this is such a problem. Both of our professions' weapons are made to look like toys by other professions'. Fencers have 1 AP weapon, Pistoleers have 2, and all three are only AP1, and don't exactly dish out the pain in terms of the damage done. If I am wielding a tiny little Stun Baton, and I come up to someone with a giant hammer or a freaking rifle as tall as the person holding it, I should think I would be damn near unhittable. Nothing is being done to compensate for this either. Since basically everyone can shoot/hit with all their attacks at the speed cap(rumored 3 second cap for riflemen, 2 for carbineers, is this true?), we will still have a very low DPS output compared to everyone else, and now they will be able to hit us a lot more easily. One more thing I want to say is that both professions focus solely on the health pool, and PvP is a race to see who can kill the mind the fastest 90% of the time. Thank you for listening...
Message Edited by BuzzardBoy on 03-10-2004 12:31 AM
Zaphar Waverunner 
Dark Jedi Padawan
blackplastick
Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:39 pm
#6
Ah i forgot they raised the dodge bonus's. Used to be +45 for fencer+pistoleer.
BUT correct me if i am wrong, i thought one class of dodge bonus's only worked for the weapon that is armed (e.g. holding a pistol you only get the dodge bonusd's for pistoleer).
Message Edited by blackplastick on 03-10-2004 06:40 PM
Message Edited by blackplastick on 03-10-2004 06:43 PM
blackplastick
Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:50 pm
#7
Tlk wrote:
It won't be as bad as you think, ranged weapons willbe correctly penialized for there range modifiers/being attacked by melee. The problem we will have will be closing which is as it should be. As the combat balances continue to come out, we just have to have faith that when it comes to PvP we will all eventually have the same dps, whether that be from capping speeds or changing weapon stats. There are always other things you can do too. There is ranged/melee defense and ranged/melee dmg mitigation. There is defence acuity from TKM (does it work?).Until the complete combat passes are done, there will always be some factors that aren't fair. We just need to wait another month or so to see what happens.
Yeah I pvped for a little while for the first month or so SWG came out, then gave it up because the pvp incredibly sucks (worst out of every MMORPG i ever played). Hopefully the new system will be more fun, although I miss the neat side abilities in DAOC (like roots and stealth attacks). Seems combat is pretty bland without these, and the "stun/dizzy/etc" abilities arent even really noticed in most cases. Here we have a highly disorganized combat system that is very nonintuitive and barely makes sense even to a math major. To top it off there are NO objectives (unless you count stupid player bases). What we need is some kind of objectives that the sides must capture and hold that benefits everybody on that side (like xp bonus). I also prefer that characters are "stuck" in a class when first chosen, that way people are well known by their abilities. Being able to drop masterys and switch around is kinda lame, expecially with the holos involved. So yeah when is WoW coming out?
Message Edited by blackplastick on 03-10-2004 06:52 PM
Kaynab
Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:22 am
#8
Couple of points:
#1: Master Fencer + Master Pistoleer = 210 dodge. With COB (without Master Brawler) your dodge is 320. COB does not double dodge. COB adds your COB effiency modifier to your secondary defense.
#2: This isn't a nerf. I have 105 dodge and thats plenty (used to have 210). This is a fix and hopefully the devs realize that stacking melee/range defense is just as bad. Currently I have 123 melee def, and 146 range. Nothing short of a very high end mob hits me with any consistency.
The only thing about this patch that bothers me is what they are doing with warcry. Then again I get to ride a cu pa so it kind of evens out /shrug.
(BTW, I'm master fencer, master rifleman, master brawler. I was a master fencer, master pistoleer, 4/0/0/4 tka, rogue before. I find my current setup much much better. I haven't met a dodge stacker I couldn't kill since its very easy to negate COB).
#1: Master Fencer + Master Pistoleer = 210 dodge. With COB (without Master Brawler) your dodge is 320. COB does not double dodge. COB adds your COB effiency modifier to your secondary defense.
#2: This isn't a nerf. I have 105 dodge and thats plenty (used to have 210). This is a fix and hopefully the devs realize that stacking melee/range defense is just as bad. Currently I have 123 melee def, and 146 range. Nothing short of a very high end mob hits me with any consistency.
The only thing about this patch that bothers me is what they are doing with warcry. Then again I get to ride a cu pa so it kind of evens out /shrug.
(BTW, I'm master fencer, master rifleman, master brawler. I was a master fencer, master pistoleer, 4/0/0/4 tka, rogue before. I find my current setup much much better. I haven't met a dodge stacker I couldn't kill since its very easy to negate COB).
Laerenian
Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:24 am
#9
The question is: What is the cap ?
I'm currently working on pistoleer/fencer but I won't go to master fencer cause I'll probably use my pistol more (I'm smuggler) and I would like to know what is the dodge cap cause it will probably change my final template 
Kaynab
Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:26 am
#10
Laerenian wrote:The question is: What is the cap ?
I'm currently working on pistoleer/fencer but I won't go to master fencer cause I'll probably use my pistol more (I'm smuggler) and I would like to know what is the dodge cap cause it will probably change my final template
Cap is 125.
Dodge/Counter/Block definitely will cap.
Melee/Range defense, not sure but it seems not likely.
Defense vs stats, useless to cap them.
BuzzardBoy
Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:23 am
#11
Kaynab wrote:
I find my current setup much much better. I haven't met a dodge stacker I couldn't kill since its very easy to negate COB).
Err...that's kind of my point. We are very easy to kill for many of the other uber templaters, and now its going to be even easier. I wasn't really talking about PvP because that stuff stopped hitting me a while ago. Its not like there are Pistoleer/Fencers running all over the place owning everyone. That would be the TKMs, Riflemen, or combos of the two, yet I see nothing being done to "balance" them.
Kaynab
Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:11 am
#12
BuzzardBoy wrote:Kaynab wrote:
I find my current setup much much better. I haven't met a dodge stacker I couldn't kill since its very easy to negate COB).Err...that's kind of my point. We are very easy to kill for many of the other uber templaters, and now its going to be even easier. I wasn't really talking about PvP because that stuff stopped hitting me a while ago. Its not like there are Pistoleer/Fencers running all over the place owning everyone. That would be the TKMs, Riflemen, or combos of the two, yet I see nothing being done to "balance" them.
Its easy to kill a TKM/Rifleman too. Just need to know how to get rid of that defense (hint: think state effects).
As for my server, there are a lot of dodge stackers running around with ackley stun batons, /shrug. They're only a pain in the ass when they have full 80% composite with 40% stun.
For PVE, anything that will hit you with 125 dodge (with COB on) most of the time will hit you with 210.
Without Rifle I was able to solo NS just as easy as before (minus the bleeds) with just Blademaster. To call this a nerf is being selfish.
I said a long time ago that dodge isn't the problem, that melee/range def is worse. Everyone still cried "Nerf dodge stacking". Its to the point where if I use my gaffi in pvp, I'm labeled a stacker. I'd much rather them cap dodge then screw with fencer. All that will happen now is that people will pay more attention to the melee/range stackers and they'll get a hot fix.
BuzzardBoy
Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:21 pm
#13
I'm sorry I wasn't clear on this, but I was pretty much talking about PvP only. I never mentioned PvE because I pretty much agree with you and think its fine.
Kaynab wrote:
For PVE, anything that will hit you with 125 dodge (with COB on) most of the time will hit you with 210.
Without Rifle I was able to solo NS just as easy as before (minus the bleeds) with just Blademaster. To call this a nerf is being selfish.
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