Fencer Archive

It seems that the fencer's (and all melee's) biggest problem now that the new kd rules are in effect is that our posture down moves are less effective and can be used only once every thirty seconds. And we can't hit while moving (which issaid to be getting fixed)Of course, after another 30 secondsof runningwe will be dirt napping for sure, including against NPCs, who seem to like kiting as much as players do and talking smack like "Haha I owned you" when you're down before smiting you.

I have a few ideas; and even one of them if implemeted could do good balancing. They are listed in favorite order.

1: A new move: Trip-strike,(at master)which would act much like lunge but could have its own 30 sec kd timer and would be a one-hit knock down or posture down, depending on success. Unlike lunge/dizzy, the victim only falls once in all situations (if it hits). This means if lunge doesnt work, trip-strike might. It gives melee's and fencers a better shot, but does not make us uber unstoppable.

2: /stick command. This keeps the enemy in range automatically (unless he burst runs). Like follow, only it works regardless of network lag and whatnot.

3:Nerf the new kd rules severely, but make a catch. In order to strike a downed enemy, the melee must kneel to hit effectively. This makes the attacker more vulnerable to melee himself, and would also mean he is not hitting with all dmg or speed, and must stand manually as soon as the victim to catch him, adding more strategy.

4. Abolish the kd timer for melee, or make it shorter, preferably by half. Keep the existing system, but tweak it so that posture downs are counted as "half" a kd attack, or make lunge and dizzy work as well as it used to. Make lunge work at 15m as well.

5: Give melee a burst run advantage, or better yet a burst run "meter" and the player holds down a sprint button. The melee's meter will be slightly higher than ranged (with bonuses for footwork?).

It would probably help a good deal if they ever fixed the combat stutter-step bug and the bug that inhibits attacking while moving. The second or two needed to stop and go into combat stance before a melee can fight confers a huge advantage on a ranged weapon user.

someone else mentioned that melee needs a way to 'snare' people. whack them in the knees or whatever. this way they can still fight back, which is not as annoying as being forced to watch your character lying on the ground getting beat on. This will let us actually make people have to stand and fight us.

1. I like this idea, but, personally, I don't want to see it implemented. I take a small measure of pride in the fact that we, as a class, are not on the 'one-shot knockdown and I win' bandwagon. I'd rather see a hamstring-style attack, or a thigh cut, or a charging leg sweep that's a bit likea sprint plus lunge oreffect at say 25m, that slowed movement rate, basically like a snare does. Anything that slows them down and gives us a chance, but doesn't rely on a knockdown to do it.

2. I definitely would like to see this. I think they have a big problem implementing this right now, though. From all the posts and replies by devs on combat lag, combat stutter (where you stop in your tracks when moving, and your combat queue 'ticks'), and the degree of uncertainty in the server tracking your location. They say it's within 6m, but I can't count how many times I've been not just standing still, but sitting, and had it 'relocate' me outside my camp. A /stick command that worked reliably would take some skill out of the game, but it would also go a long way to giving us a chance vs. ranged.

3,4. New knockdown rules already seem severely nerfed as-is. Gone are the days of kd spamming, and I have yet to see someone get off a kd, or a dizzy-lunge, and have it last more than a handful of seconds. Mobs and players get up almost as soon as they hit the ground it seems to me..

Abolishing knockdown timer wouldn't do us any good, really. We rely on getting the combo off. With the short duration of lunge, combined with the post-patch percentages of landing a dizzy effect, we pretty much aren't knocking down many things these days. While I think they need to make the status effect specials work as before (near 100% chance to land them before, imo), I can't really see them restoring lunge. While it would be nice, it really let us, as well as all other classes with a posture change, solo things much bigger than us.

5. Some way to close the distance on ranged opponents would be nice. However, I can't think of a good way to implement one. If it has even the hint of possibility of being powerful, then classes that are our bane in pvp will most likely just pick it up by combo-ing points into melee. That just negates us, and makes them a touch better vs. each other. I like your idea of having burst be on a bar and a button. A bit like DAoC was with sprinting, and end. cost. But couple this with scout/ranger burst run efficiency, and it could be very overpowered.

A good post, good constructive ideas, even if I don't completely agree. We need something to give us a chance to overcome ranged opponents in pvp, and stop it from being a melee tailchaser. This will probably make me unpopular, but I think that's really all we should get. A chance. It should not be our god-given right to be able to close on any ranged fighter so we can get our licks in. Combat is situational, and IF we get in range, there is, or should be, a high percentage chance we'll win.. At range, the odds should be in the gun bunny's favor. But, given skilled players,there should be a toss up in the struggle to close/widen range. We should have a chance, instead of the follow-the-leader that goes on now.

-Onei Linn

LegacyISA,

Now that I think about it I like the hamstring style attack better. Maybe KD should never have been put in at all, it may be easier to balance the entire system without it.

To clarify number 3, by nerf the kd rules I mean to make it easier for lunge/dizzy to work again.

I think there is a rather elegant solution to this problem. As someone else pointed out, have a hobble strike or hamstring strike or whatever, its only purpose is to slow down thier movement for a period of time.

They can still spam eyeshot, or flamethrower you into oblivion, but if you can get that one strike in there, you should be able to keep up after that. And it isn't even that overbalancing, you can still get knocked down or posture changed which would allow the slowed individual to put some distance between you / buy some time to run out the slowdown effect, it just means that if you do manage to get back up in a reasonable amount of time, you just have to close the distance again.

The biggest expliot I can see with this is mixing a ranged attack with this special. You could then slow down the target and switch to ranged weapon to maximize your kiting potential, but it is a start.

What does everyone else think?
Ryoko

Shadowfire, Novice Fencer, Novice armoursmith

A**edit**aaka,

Gotcha.. Nerf is such a common word these days, and sometimes so poorly used, I just rolled my eyes past it.. Agree on the dizzy.. Like I said, not sure about lunge, just because to be fair, they'd need to reinstate posture changes for everyone, and that'd bring back a lot of red-mob kiting. Dizzy needs to work like before.. Heck, I don't think Blind works like before, but that's just my observation.

Starfox,

I agree, would be tough to implement. I'm by no means an expert in the advanced professions. And as far as I can tell, giving a snare to melee would make them unique in that regard, barring traps (which don't work in pvp). You'd almost have to put it at least halfway up one of the advanced lines.. And probably the line that's 'least' desirable.. For us it'd either be, imo, Stances and Grips, or the Finesse line. It'd need to have a similar effect(snare) but different move for each of the advanced melee classes. And heck, put it on a 5 minute, even a 10 minute for all I care, timer. That way we can't be running around snaring up entire groups in pvp to make them into sashimi.

I'd say Finesse personally. That's the one that you get from Combat Experience, right? There also should be no ranged snares. For as much sense as it would make, for those of you who know/remember...just think Mana Enchanter pets. Bad news (and I was a Mentalist...haha)! The snare, if implemented should be a melee only maneuver. That isn't to say that a Rifleman/Fencer (ick) couldn't use it to their advantage, but it would definitely help out us Fencer/Docs with no ranged ability whatsoever

You know what I'd like to see more than anything? How about making those HILLS, ROCKS, TREES, WALLS, and other TERRAIN features mean something? Right now I can be shot at through a hill or a building.

Is this fair?

If I could actually use the terrain to my advantage I might win more duels. As it stands it's like all ranged players have an attack that travels through hyper space, or in some other way defies the laws of physics.

Sounds fair to me, Thror. Those guys in Star Wars were definitely using objects as cover.

I'd like to put my vote behind the "hobble strike" idea. I 'm not sure which tree I think would be best to put it in though. The combat XP tree makes sense in one way because it would force people looking to "borrow" the skill to choose between using that combat xp for their main combat prof or to get hobble. But if someone has already reached master in another elite they'll have no trouble getting that combat XP using their main weapon and just getting enough one handed xp to get novice fencer. Tough call but I'd be happy just seeing the skill and not complain about where they put it. We have a new correspondent yet? Perhaps whoever originated the "hobbling" attack could post it on the other elite melee boards if we don't have a designated mouthpiece.

I suggested the hobble idea along time ago...it just makes sense that Fencers (who kill there opponent over a period of time) have something that allows us to dismantle an opponent..or in the case of going toe to toe w/ a commando..get the hell outa dodge..if only to let them bleed and then to attack again.


BH's have there eyeshots and knockdowns; that is their calling card

TKA has a KD and meditate; that is their calling card

Swordsmen have their ..umm...High damage and speed

Pikemen...well they're our distant cousins; they need help too.

Commandos have those irritating explosions..and the flame thrower; that is there calling card.

But what do we have as or calling card? A buzzing butter knife? a police stick?