Fencer Archive
Thread: The Real Scoop on Dodge, Pistoleer/Fencer, Stacking Issues, and Nerfs
GaryNgCodeFour wrote:
now you mention it, i just notice something.
the defense of swordman and carbinerr should be similar, both has counter-attack, so wouldn't it makes sense either give carbinerr mind bleed of just move the mind bleed to pikeman?
since fencer/pistoleer, swordman/carbineer, pikeman/rifleman these classess have similar defense ability, hmmm....i wonder...
I noticed the same thing recently, but I think it should be the other way around. Make the similar damage types have different defense skills. Even if block and counterattack worked (and stacked) properly, the fencer/pistoleer would still have an advantage with the current system. If it were something like:
Pistoleer - counterattack, Carbineer - dodge, Rifleman - block
Fencer - block,Pikeman - counterattack, Swordsman - dodge
(I moved the class defenses around to what seemed more appropriate to me for the specific weapon, but any combination would have the same effect.)
This wouldbring more variety to the galaxy by forcing people to decide between offense or defense.This would also help to lower damage outputin PvP a bit to makeit last a little longer. Of course the the bleeds and the defenses of the same type would have to continue (and start) to stack to make this a viable option.
Overall, I don't think the pistoleer/fencer dodge is the real issue, it's the fact that they can land four bleeds on the same pool, then stand there and wait for their taget to die. If the defenses were aligned to be damage typespecific, we'd just have a bunch of bleeders on the battlefield waiting to see who fell down first.
Diens wrote:
Overall, I don't think the pistoleer/fencer dodge is the real issue, it's the fact that they can land four bleeds on the same pool, then stand there and wait for their taget to die. If the defenses were aligned to be damage typespecific, we'd just have a bunch of bleeders on the battlefield waiting to see who fell down first.
CoB Dodgeis the issue. I think your arguement even helps it. If CoB dodge did not make people almost unhittable, then bleeds would not be as important as you say.
I think the real problem is not +205 dodge, but CoB +205 dodge. If dodge is similar to melee/ranged defense, then 205 is not unhittable. A Master Pistoleer/fencer would probably only dodge ~35% of attacks from a master fencer.(who does have a pretty high accuracy). [This is a guess using Nouless000 formula which is probably not correct, but should be close.] BUT according to how CoB works, that % could drasticly increase. (If cob is a % increase, I think the % chance to dodge could approach 100%)
But until the devs tell us the formula we can only go by our imperfect guesses. Hopefully one of the corespondants will be able to get us more info about all defenses.
--Rorrimot
Diens wrote:
Overall, I don't think the pistoleer/fencer dodge is the real issue, it's the fact that they can land four bleeds on the same pool, then stand there and wait for their taget to die.
Well, I agree that there is an issue with the similarities between a fencer and a pistoleer. However I TOTALLY DISAGREE with your solution. Changing the defense types makes a lot more sense than changing the bleeds, and from a developer stand point would probably be much easier to do (since they only recently implemented a working 2nd defense system, whereas the bleeds have been fine since I started playing in August). Also, with the new AI the bleeds will not be as effective for just standing there and not attacking and furthermore if the defense types were realigned the fencer/pistoleer combo would be more comparable to the other effectivebleed combos (assuming that they don't accidentally make another uber 2nd defense stacking combo).
IVIafioso wrote:
MonikaTSarn wrote:
Wow, they should make you 'combat system correspondent' - good work.
What makes it a bit unfair is that fencer and pistoleer is a great combo - can stack 4 bleeds on health. Swordsman and carabineer would suck, they get mind and action bleeds. Just as pikeman and rifleman would suck probably.
swordsman get 2 mind bleeds ..........so do rifleman.......hey! combine them and get 4 stacking health bleeds
hmmmm looks like there are only two left soo................combinde them and get 4 stacking action bleeds
yay!
i actually have no idea if pikeman have action bleeds or not but my intleligence says they do
you didn't get the point. sorry.
pistoleer: dodge, health-attacks
fencer: dodge, health-attacks
carbinier: counterattack, action-attacks
swordsman: counterattack, mind-attacks
rifleman: block, mindattacks
pikeman: block, action-attacks
First and foremost Raph I must agree with the masses here, you are truly the best correspondent in the game. Thanks for all your efforts.
Secondly, as i wipe my brow, I took up fencing because I love the profession. I gave up all elite pisolteer skills to do so. So I am happy and sad at the same time.
Auli
PoetPRED wrote:
I think someone needs to rethink their testing.
Did someone do testing that disagrees with your experience? What you say happened to you is exactly what was supposed to happen.
The exact opposite is happening for me. I'm3-4-0-4 in fencer, anddodge almost nothing with a my gaffi stick equipped. This is exactly howit should be,ifI wasn'ta masterpistoleerwith over100 dodge. As soon as I switch to a pistol, I begin dodging again. Raphayl, I think in this latest patch, the dodge stacking was removed. You may want to retest this, and if need be, edit the FAQ.
By the way, you're an incredible correspondent.
PoetPRED wrote:
hmm strange i did a fairly easy test adn this is what i got. I was master pistoleer before mgoing into fencing. I put a dagger in my hand to start my first box as a brawler in one hand weapon fighting. Wow to my amazement I dodged and evaded my ass off. I had no dodge mod to fencing yet. I think someone needs to rethink their testing.
I just went throug the same process and never, ever dodged once until I hit novice fencer. I'm master pistoleer too. Even when I did become a fencer, dodge was rare. Either we are all having different behaviour or people are getting confused about dodge.