Fencer Archive
Thread: The Future of Fencer: Your thoughts?
which is all great, by the way.
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Or perhaps I should say "are *mostly* great."
which is all great, by the way.
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Or perhaps I should say "are mostly great."
Rezael wrote:
Duel Wield - Receive NO COMBAT ATTACK bonuses - and we can only duel wield a dagger. But With duel wield Comes 3 Specials ParryAndLunge1, ParryAndLunge2, ParryAndLunge3.
When Duel wielding our attacks hit for a DAMAGE penalty.because we cannot use full power as we have another weapon in our hands, we should also be a little slower.
But we recieve a Bonus to Melee Defense.
I really like this idea, it would work well, throw in a dizzy, then grab that dagger and parry-lunge...give us the crowd control we need, because we can't always find that "perfect group"...
a very good movie comes to mind when you two describe broadsword (cutting) and rapier (thrusting).
Rob Roy with Liam Niesen (sp?)
watch the end, You have the large scottsman weilding the gangly, yet massively powerful broad weapon. Which is mean to be used in a hacking fashion, and then theres the (fencer) with the slim style blade of the (rapier i think it is, or maybe sabre) who uses it to thrust in and out, glide this way and that, and inevitably...slice its way through the opponents defenses =)
good fight scene, good movie, loved it own it too hehe
night
First I would like to say that as the current fencer is, I'm impressed. I was a master pistoleer before the holo told me to go fencer and have been in love with it ever since. The animations are cool, the style is great, and the ability to solo is awesome. For those of you who feel disenchanted and discouraged because you feel the fencer is too weak, you really ought to try some of the other combat professions, you're not as bad off as you think....anyway
- What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions? I agree with those who feel we are speed and finesse(sp). We are NOT tanks in the sense we take lots of damage and hold up well under fire. Nor do we inflict mass damage as a commando or Heavy Swordsman. We dodge/parry/strike.
- What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks? The flavor is defense defense defense! Our goal should be to remove our opponents ability to attack in order to get the upperhand!
- What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use? Very fast and not very damaging...initially! Light swords, knives, batons, etc. I have been shocked to see how slow fencer weapons are in comparison to 2.0 pistols.
- Do you have ideas for how future certifications should be spread out? So far I think the system is spread very nicely. I would like to see more varying weapon certs but I thinkthe Devs are planning that already!
- What kind of group role should a Fencer typically serve?I don't see the fencer as a stand-out group player, mostly a distraction. The ability to handle multiple opponents by avoiding attacks and wearing opponents down, ie. bleeds, slowing an opponent, disarming/disabling attackers...
- What kind of battlefield (mass PvP) role should a Fencer hold? Similar to group role...
- What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have? A balance of Mind and Action HAM. We shouldn't expend alot of energy and get weak in a physical sense thus affecting our Health pool. Our weapons would be light a quick requiring technique and focus not sheer strength and brute force!
- What kind of utilities would you like to see Fencer's have? (Some we already have) The ability to avoid or block when not in melee range at the cost of our movement. I believe a dodge animation outside of melee is fine since we have had to evade. Maybe similar to CoB that could even work in melee. Where our focus is avoiding instead of attacking. A defensive posture that we use to deflect attacks and evade.
Definately a movement modifier or a KD move where we slow or knock down an opponent! Maybe something with a signifigant change posture time. Similar to the hamstring idea where the opponent lowers posture for 10 or so seconds. And obviously with dizzy the opportunity for them to KD.
Some sort of disarm move, diabling the weapon for a time period. They would be able to attack but they would be weaponless for10 or so seconds. Obviously someone like a TKA or Rancor wouldn't be affected by this attack, only those with weapons.
What sort of idiot would use a rapier as a longsword? I mean, they don't have a true cutting edge. Anyone could just look at a rapier and see its function.
Rosar wrote:
Actually, it wasn't me who firstmentioned longswords, it was someone else, near the top of the page, who also described someone who lacks the basic sense to use a rapier as it is intended. Sure, fighting with a longsword and fighting with a rapier are two verydifferentstyles, but it's hard to imagine someone confusing the two weapons.
Longswords aren't single-handed weapons, as most games and movies and such portray them. I know this. I own a few pieces, myself. That's not my point.
Look, I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, here. I wasn't actually intending to insult anyone. My post wasn't even all that serious. It just amused me to picture someone using a rapier as a longsword. I see now that it probably wasn't a good idea to focus on a specific version of a general weapon.
Anyway, my point:
Rapiers, like most every sword in existence,*can* be used as both a cutting and thursting weapon, but almost everyone associates them with thrusting. The term 'rapier' is actually quite general, covering everything from the 'real' rapier, 16th and 17th century 'cut-and-thrust' blades, the the flimsy, whip-like foils of modern sport fencing, but in all cases the rapier's primary function *is* as a thrusting weapon. Anyone who bothers to look up even the basic, dictionary definition of a rapier, or has actually seen one, would immediately associate the weapon with thrusting. It's very easy to contrast a so-called "broadsword" (a term invented to describe nearly every sword intended primarily for cutting) with a rapier.A typical rapier's blade doesn't begin very wide at the hilt, and tapers to a very sharp point at the end. It can be used for cutting, sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as effective as a thrust. Thrusts are innately far more lethal than cuts, anyway, which makes rapiers quite lethal. A "broadsword" begins with quite a heavy, solid, wide blade and may also taper to a sharp point, depending on the style of sword, but is more often than not used primarily as a cutting weapon.
I've only just begun to explore the vast field of medieval and Renaissance weaponry, so *please* forgive me if I'm not accurate, and please correct me if I am mistaken in anything I post. That will definitely help me a lot more than calling me an idiot. Not that it wasn't warranted, but it certainly doesn't help any.
"Thrusts are innately far more lethal than cuts, anyway, which makes rapiers quite lethal."
Although i have to agree with most of your post, i must step in at this sentence. A thrust in itself is not more lethal by nature than a thrust. You are true if you only consider the upper Torso (main target for thrusts), but this is a conjecture, flawed in its nature. While a thrust to the upper torso is without a doubt more lethal than slash, you forget that slashes are always aiming for the neck and throat of a target. A slash in the throat is much more lethal than a thrust.
It depends on the style of fencing you are using wich method shows to be more lethal.
Second: A thrust is by far means easier to parry than a slash or a cut. due to its linear nature you need only a marginal change in its vector to negate it's effectivity. A cut or a slash on the other hand use a broader area of impact. You need to stop the attack completely or relay its movement in a wide arc.
I had a test riunning with a friend using a 16th century spanish rapier against a 5th century germanian spatha. The Spatha was damaszened steel, a replice form the Hyulsberg excavation. The rapier used a
polycarbonate steel, only in its form and qualties a replica from a Museum's piece.
The increased range of the Rapier make initial closing harder for the Spatha fighter, but once within range, the Spatha beats the Rapier.
The reason: Both weapons have almost the same weight (812g on the Spatha, 740g on the Rapier), Both are fast and flexible. But it is the slashing qualities of the Spatha combined with its blade length that win the CQ fight. Due to the speed of the Spatha it is also easy to counter the Thrusts of the rapier. The slashes of the rapier are slower than that of the spatha due to its increased Blade length.
Test was done with sharp weapons, to come as close as possible to a comparable result.
For any forther questions, please reply to me via a PM.
Thanx,
Dogg
TsiyaAma wrote:
Rezael wrote:
Duel Wield - Receive NO COMBAT ATTACK bonuses - and we can only duel wield a dagger. But With duel wield Comes 3 Specials ParryAndLunge1, ParryAndLunge2, ParryAndLunge3.
When Duel wielding our attacks hit for a DAMAGE penalty.because we cannot use full power as we have another weapon in our hands, we should also be a little slower.
But we recieve a Bonus to Melee Defense.
I really like this idea, it would work well, throw in a dizzy, then grab that dagger and parry-lunge...give us the crowd control we need, because we can't always find that "perfect group"...
I think this pary-lunge-duel wield idea would make us much more dynamic, and make us alot better on defensively as it will give us a way to be more defensive by our own choosing we can actually choose which attacks to parry,imagine being able to parry that knockdown that could of killed us...
and it makes for a more dynamic gameplay situation as we are now choosing our defensive abilities as we do our offense...
i think we should have more defensive specials as well...
Raph, any opinions on this?
MadisLylen wrote:
First I would like to say that as the current fencer is, I'm impressed. I was a master pistoleer before the holo told me to go fencer and have been in love with it ever since. The animations are cool, the style is great, and the ability to solo is awesome. For those of you who feel disenchanted and discouraged because you feel the fencer is too weak, you really ought to try some of the other combat professions, you're not as bad off as you think....anyway
- What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions? I agree with those who feel we are speed and finesse(sp). We are NOT tanks in the sense we take lots of damage and hold up well under fire. Nor do we inflict mass damage as a commando or Heavy Swordsman. We dodge/parry/strike.
- What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks? The flavor is defense defense defense! Our goal should be to remove our opponents ability to attack in order to get the upperhand!
- What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use? Very fast and not very damaging...initially! Light swords, knives, batons, etc. I have been shocked to see how slow fencer weapons are in comparison to 2.0 pistols.
- Do you have ideas for how future certifications should be spread out? So far I think the system is spread very nicely. I would like to see more varying weapon certs but I thinkthe Devs are planning that already!
- What kind of group role should a Fencer typically serve?I don't see the fencer as a stand-out group player, mostly a distraction. The ability to handle multiple opponents by avoiding attacks and wearing opponents down, ie. bleeds, slowing an opponent, disarming/disabling attackers...
- What kind of battlefield (mass PvP) role should a Fencer hold? Similar to group role...
- What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have? A balance of Mind and Action HAM. We shouldn't expend alot of energy and get weak in a physical sense thus affecting our Health pool. Our weapons would be light a quick requiring technique and focus not sheer strength and brute force!
- What kind of utilities would you like to see Fencer's have? (Some we already have) The ability to avoid or block when not in melee range at the cost of our movement. I believe a dodge animation outside of melee is fine since we have had to evade. Maybe similar to CoB that could even work in melee. Where our focus is avoiding instead of attacking. A defensive posture that we use to deflect attacks and evade.
Definately a movement modifier or a KD move where we slow or knock down an opponent! Maybe something with a signifigant change posture time. Similar to the hamstring idea where the opponent lowers posture for 10 or so seconds. And obviously with dizzy the opportunity for them to KD.
Some sort of disarm move, diabling the weapon for a time period. They would be able to attack but they would be weaponless for10 or so seconds. Obviously someone like a TKA or Rancor wouldn't be affected by this attack, only those with weapons.
i'd have to agree with im 100%.. .I would also like to see more swords for our class rather than sticks.
At least we all agree that we *want* different/improved weapons.
I'm all for new abilities, just so long as it is in balanced w/ the other professions.