Fencer Archive

Thread: Why is the lighsaber a 2 handed weapon?

Fejimush
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:04 am
#1


I was just curious about this because it clearly looks like they get used with one hand most of the time. Even in the "Image of the day" (#269 of #282) yesterday both characters are holding them with one hand. Even in the movies itappears they get used with one hand as well most of the time. Even old Obi-Wan called it an "elegant weapon,"that sure sounds more the a 1H Fencing/Sword likeweapon rather than a massive 2H sword. In Knights of the Republic it is clearly more of a 1H weapon as well. Although, you do see it held with two hands some of the time. I would argue you see it held with one hand most of the time.


I guess this brings up another point that's been bugging me a little. I think the SWG crew (although the game itself is great as a whole)kind of screwed up the Fencer, Sword, and Pikeman trees . It seems to me that some of Sword should be combined with Fencerand some of Sword should be combined with the Pikeman trees. I just don't see the need for 3 separate trees. It seems to add quite a bit of confusion as well. It's either a 1H weapon (fencer weapons/smaller swords) or a 2H weapon (bigger swords/and pole arm like weapons, i.e. ones that are so heavy or cumbersomeyou really need 2 hands to use it effectively).


Maybe there could be a third tree for people who specialize in using "sticks and twigs." So you would havethese three specializations instead Sword, Two-Handed(Pole-Arm or something), and "Sticks andTwigs" (The "crow bars" we use should go here.).


On a side note, I don't see why Fencers/Swordsman shouldn't be able to use a lightsaber (certainly not as well as a Jedi) but even Han Solo picked one up in Empire Strikes Back, so why can't Fencers? I don't see Fencers deflecting blaster bolts but we should be able to use it, if we find one. Even in some of the Star Wars literature that's out there non-Jedis use lightsabers quite effectively.


Comments? I am way off-base?


Thanks,


Oreb on Bria
FURY_Chaser
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:10 am
#2

Training LS = 1 hand

All else i think = 2 hand
Naraku-A66
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:11 am
#3


first tree (padawan) is 1 handed

second tree (knight) is 2 handed

third tree (master) islance (dual saber)

Message Edited by Naraku-A66 on 04-22-2004 07:26 AM



-|Naraku|-
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winddrake
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:27 am
#4

Will brawler skills stack with Jedi combat skills? I am just wondering if they do, how many fencer/jedi we will have...







Ja'Sen Blacktree [lvl 80 jedi]
Ja'lex Blacktree [Trader - Structures]
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Vincentarasin
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:10 am
#5

You cant do that.



To become a novice padawan requires (i belive) 250 points. So there is no "secondary profession".




Also, anyone that is famuliar with actual melee combat knows that almost all "Swords" are used with two hands, they "Can" be used with one, but there is not much power or agility in doing so, with two hands (Even on a Katana) the manuverability and power is increased greatly, as well as the control factor.



Go watch "The Last Samurai" thats the latest movie I can think of that proves my point, the swords are used both ways, but watch closly (that movie had several martial arts masters training the actors, its not all BS, infact its quite real, though exagerated some) you will see the 2h sword and 1h sword differences





Vincent' Arasin
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Daigoro202
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:31 pm
#6

I think the lightsaber might use similar cuts to a katana, but thereare some key differences. One is that the lightsaber blade is weightless. Another is that there is no specific cutting edge.There's alsothe fact that it is supposed to be able to cut through almost anything, so it would rarely meet much resistance in normal fighting. This might encourage one-handed fighting-- two hands might not necessarily give you anymore cutting power.


However, if you were fighting against another person using a lightsaber, you probably would want to use two hands. Against another lightsaber your bladewould encounter resistance. If your opponent tried to strike you with two hands, and you blocked with just one, you probably wouldn't have the leverage to maintain control of the blade with just one hand, and your weapon would be knocked away from you, or toward you.


The katana is actually the reverse of what you see in SWG-- wielded in two hands you would have a very responsive defense and moreblade control, but if you wanted to gain more power, for example, in a horizontal cut, you would relax your left hand or release it altogether. If you did use a one-handed tactic, you would do so hoping that it would end the fight-- if it did not, you would need to recover to your two-handed stance very quickly or you'd be in trouble, with only one handyour sword could easily be knocked aside.


However, in a battlefield situation, you might not be in a position to use two hands, and if you were fighting on horseback, you would certainly use just one hand.







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Ciirybeccaskyr
Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:55 pm
#7

just like someone already said


nooblet jedi = 1hand


apprentice = 2 hand


guardian = polearm saber


even the special animation are a direct rippoff of fencer moves for the first skill set





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Kelur
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:52 pm
#8


"Also, anyone that is famuliar with actual melee combat knows that almost all "Swords" are used with two hands, they "Can" be used with one, but there is not much power or agility in doing so, with two hands (Even on a Katana) the manuverability and power is increased greatly, as well as the control factor."


I think that you may be somewhat confused about sword craft (or possibly forgetting that there are other civilizations in the world that use swords apart from in Asia).


European fencing weapons are almost exclusively one handed and especially sport fencing where there are no 2 handed weapons at all.


Regarding power and agility - the whole thing about the fencer skill in my opinion was that you had more agility and less power - sure you have less power, but you are weilding lighter weapons with much greater agility than any twohanded weapon ... you are using 2 hands cause they are heavy .... of course a big ass sword is going to do more damage if it hits you .... infact it is likely to cut you in half LOL.


Regarding light sabers - i have never imagined a light saber to be a one handed weapon. I dont think it's a weapon that needs to be wielded with any form of finesse, especially considering it's gonna cut through almost everything it contacts with. I was always of the opinion that the art to using one was in the anticipation (use the force Luke) of the attack ...

MCreatureHandler
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:36 am
#9

The lightsaber is an adept weapon that only jedi can use!

The jedi's combat style is a mixture between 1 handed and 2 handed which is why the jedi are so skilled in combat (even if they only use it in defence)

And as for all you nutters who say that you would need 2 hands on the lightsaber to hold back someone pushing another lightsaber back are talking nonsense! The jedi dont use their physical strength!!!

They use the force to push against the lightsaber! If their physical strength was an issue then Yoda would of been killed very very fast and all the padawans would be absoloutly destroyed by a slightly stronger opponent!


I will not sit back and let them try to justify physics in SWG because it is fantasy and in fantasy physics are different



Jad'en Sky'Stalker
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Star Wars Galaxies Of Europe-Infinity

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The-OnlyAcid-Christ
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:44 am
#10






Vincentarasin wrote:

You cant do that.



To become a novice padawan requires (i belive) 250 points. So there is no "secondary profession".




Also, anyone that is famuliar with actual melee combat knows that almost all "Swords" are used with two hands, they "Can" be used with one, but there is not much power or agility in doing so, with two hands (Even on a Katana) the manuverability and power is increased greatly, as well as the control factor.



Go watch "The Last Samurai" thats the latest movie I can think of that proves my point, the swords are used both ways, but watch closly (that movie had several martial arts masters training the actors, its not all BS, infact its quite real, though exagerated some) you will see the 2h sword and 1h sword differences








Actually they can. From what I read, unless it has changed, they said that the added "Jedi" skills to your main char would not affect your current skill tree. You will be able to level your Jedi Main without having to change your templates.



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Fejimush
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:40 pm
#11

I guess one of the things I was getting at was that it seems strange to me to have these professions a No Weapon Profession (TK), Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman.


I mean even a small dagger can be used with two hands quite effectively (i.e. a palm on the hilt and other hand on the handle). The Fencer profession seems too specific. We might as well have a profession called Katana Master, where the player is only a master with Katanas. The other three professions seem broader in their scope.


It makes more sense to me to have, something like this,a no weapon profession like TK, a small sword profession, and a large sword/polearm profession, and ???. In effect renaming the Fencing skill to the small sword profession and split the current Swordsman professionbetween the current Fencer and Pikeman professions.


As far as Fencers/Swordsman using lightsabers. I still can't any reason why a fencer/swordmans couldn't use one. Like I said in my original post, there is plenty of stuff out there, including the Lucas movies and Lucas supported literature, that supports non-Jedis using lightsabers. Of course they will never be as good as a Jedi. But like Han Solo did in the Empire Strikes Back he just picked it up and turned in on.


Neat discussion btw, thanks.


Oreb on Bria


Fejimush
Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:41 pm
#12

Oh I forgot. I should add that I thought the lightsaber was only a 2H weapon because that's what it says in Prima's Official SWG guide. It is probably just outdated.


Thanks,


Oreb on Bria
Daigoro202
Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:08 am
#13

There was an interesting article in the magazine Star Wars Insider, it's been circulating theboards in reference to SWG lately, that kind of gives a fictionalized account of the different Lightsaber Forms-- for example, the earliest users used Form I, when the Sith emerged and they needed to fight others wielding lightsabers, they developed Form II. Obi-Wan practiced Form III (a defensive form),Qui-Gon and Yoda practiced the acrobaticForm IV.Anakin practices the more aggressive Form V. Form VI was a simpler form that supposedly allowed the Jedi to focus more on other pursuits such as negotiation and conflict resolution, it was called the "Diplomat's Form" and was seen as a weaker form, partly why the Jedi leading up to the Clone Wars were not as prepared for combat. The Seventh Form was the most dangerous and advanced, mastered by very few Jedi, such as Mace Windu.


I've summarized the most often referenced stuff-- it's mostlly referred to in terms ofthe SWG Jedi profession. However, there was something interesting related to it--although the article waswritten before the release of SWG, the names of the Jedi "marks of contact" have the same names as some of the Fencer special moves. For example, "shiak" means to stab, "cho mai" means to cut off the opponent's hand,"chosun" means to cut off the arm. Interestingly, "sai tok", which means to cut your opponent in half, is the name of themove you get at Master Fencer-- although this is the move that Obi-Wan uses on Darth Maul it is discouraged, as it seems to indicate a Dark-Side urge to destroy your opponent.


People don't really lose limbs in this game, but it almost suggests that Fencing and Lightsaber technique have common roots, or that Fencers practice a sword tradition that wassomewhatmaintained or at least referred toby the Jedi when they adopted the lightsaber. If someone knows who first coined these terms, I'd be curious to learn.







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