Fencer Archive

Message Edited by Thror on 04-22-2004 10:45 PM

Message Edited by Sipura on 04-22-2004 10:57 PM

Message Edited by Sipura on 04-22-2004 10:58 PM

I'm one box from master fencer, I have been a number of professions, and I can honestly say giving fencer an AP2 weapons would make it seriously overpowered, almost unforgivably so. Unlike alot of people I want my profession to be a challange(ok not in teh range of pisotleer challange simply because were broken as hell ), giving fencers AP2 would revmove that challange. Yeah it sucks not being able to hunt big game, but I knew I wouldnt be able to do that going in, and unlike pistoleer, fencer has a definite niche in hunting parties and PvP.

Now, obviously we could use a new AP1 weapon, maybe the curved sword or the ryak(sp?) blade would work, I'm not disputing that much, considering we are out of the park in general for hunting decent loot drop stuff. However, I think basically anyone with a working brain can figure thatgiving us an AP2 weapon would utterly overpower us, the only reason we wouldnt be more overpowered then rifleman at that point is because of our 10m range limit, but as far as melee goes we would rule as kings, period.

I'm not saying be happy with what you have, but you MUST understand, fencer is far FAR better off then many other professions. Its very VERY good. Unlike ranged professions, melee has a strong niche system working in its favor, dont unbalance it for greedy purposess please.

pikeman and swordsmen get ap2 weapons and to compentsate for are pve strenths we get slow speed & horrible accuracy not to mention swordsmen has no state effect attacks abprt from area 3 'sometimes' lays a dizzy

by the way i'm not a swordsmen just come here to bitc i'm a master fencer as well see if yo uwant to deal ap2 damage and keep fencer defence you have to do what i did, master both

Sipura are you serious? Have a look at the pikeman. They haven had a new weapon in ages and the Nightsister energy lance is nothing to write home to mom about. It is crap and near impossible to get. Dont go spouting off about the pikeman get looted lances. You have any idea how frustrating it is to have to go hunt for your weapons and hope for a good loot cause you just broke your good lance in a repair? Swordsman outdamage us with crafter powerhammers and scythes. Pikeman only have one AP2 weapon, and they should ahve more. Fencers dont need new weapons piekamn do. It is almost impossible to find those amazing looted lances and if someone else finds it be ready to fork over millions.

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f33d84ck wrote:
Sipura are you serious? Have a look at the pikeman. They haven had a new weapon in ages and the Nightsister energy lance is nothing to write home to mom about. It is crap and near impossible to get. Dont go spouting off about the pikeman get looted lances. You have any idea how frustrating it is to have to go hunt for your weapons and hope for a good loot cause you just broke your good lance in a repair? Swordsman outdamage us with crafter powerhammers and scythes. Pikeman only have one AP2 weapon, and they should ahve more. Fencers dont need new weapons piekamn do. It is almost impossible to find those amazing looted lances and if someone else finds it be ready to fork over millions.

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sweety I was only making an example more towards the swordsman, I was masterpikeman last August before hologrinding, I do agree you guys need new weps also, oh how I miss area kd. anyhoot I dont see us getting armor pierce 2 but a rapier or katana with ap1 would be nice

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Thror wrote:

I know what you might be thinking: who is this pretentious clod and why is he telling me what to do? Well I'm an active fencer who's been playing since long before we ever became a FOTM and I'm a regular board troll; I just don't post unless I have something to say.

Our correspondent has saidit himself on more than one occasion: We are NOT getting an AP 2 weapon. I'm not putting down anyone who has posted ideas suggesting an AP 2 weapon. I've read a lot of those posts and many of them are well thought out and interesting. I'm just politely suggesting that you put your creativity to use on other ideas.

Let's talk about getting a better selection of AP 1 weapons and more damage types instead. Both of these concepts are very much in line with our role as adiverse defense oriented class.

Message Edited by Thror on 04-22-2004 10:45 PM

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Here we go again.

Hey, Johnny-come-lately, here is a timeline for you:

Suggestion of an AP2 weapon ---You----------------------------------------------------------------The rest of the fencing community

In other words, your rant was nice, but a bit poorly researched as the idea of an AP 2 weapon was dropped a while ago.

Muttonhead.

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Daigoro202 wrote:

Is the general thinking that the imbalance caused by AP2 fencer weapons would mostly be in PvP, or are there concerns that the imbalance would also reach into PvE?

With regards to PvE balance, Fencers-- and, in this case-- Swordsmen, would ideally be balanced because the defenses of Fencer balanced out the damage and AP level of Swordsmen. Is that balance still in effect-- or have buffs and high-end armor negated all the disadvantagesforSwordsmenin regards to PvE?

Buffs and armor might enhance the advantage of Fencers-- the ability to stay alive, but the disadvantage of not doing much damage is still intact--you can't go to a Doctor and getthe AP level of your weapons increased forthree and a half hours.

However, for Swordsmen, buffs and armor seem to have negated the disadvantages. Not just the ability to sustain damage, but also the need to carefully manage your HAM costs in anticipation of how much damage you might expect to take. Please note that I have nothing against Swordsmen. I have heard that's it's hard to play an HS without buffs, so who can blame them for taking that measure?

It would seem there was an imbalance going on already-- the fact thatbuffs andarmorcompletely negate thedownside of the high damaging professions. Unfortunately, this imbalance has become institutionalized-- when designing new content, or rebalancing existing content, the developers seem to focus on higher HAM and higher armor level and resists. Obviously, they're taking into account the fact that the armored, buffed players will be able to chew threw anything less.

There are plenty of mobs that abuffed Heavy Swordsmen, Rifleman, or even a Pikeman can kill, but a Fencercan barely damage. Is the reverse ever true? If the HS, Rifleman, or Pikeman were alsoDoctors, thismight be even more true, but if the Fencer was a Doc, it would make very little difference.

The developers have said that the combat update was in the works. They also said something to the effect that some classes might be leftbehind for a bit while it getsworked out. I hope these issuesget resolved, but in any case, I agree, AP2 weapons for Fencers, while it might serve as a temporary solution, probably would not be the answer to a larger problem.

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Pit a master fencer against a master swordsmanboth ,buffedin pvp, and iknowthe fencer will win hands down. Fencer is not made to be a PvE god which is what you seem towant. You named 3 profs that can solo high end mobs. 3 profs out of what? 9? So why should fencer be able to solo high end mobs as apposed to Commando,BH,Pistoleer,Teras Kasi, or carbineer? In the long run each prof has its strengths as weaknesses(or is supposed to). Balance does not equal that every profession should be able to do what every other profession is capable of. That is why you are able to master multiple professions

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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Thror wrote:

I know what you might be thinking: who is this pretentious clod and why is he telling me what to do? Well I'm an active fencer who's been playing since long before we ever became a FOTM and I'm a regular board troll; I just don't post unless I have something to say.

Our correspondent has saidit himself on more than one occasion: We are NOT getting an AP 2 weapon. I'm not putting down anyone who has posted ideas suggesting an AP 2 weapon. I've read a lot of those posts and many of them are well thought out and interesting. I'm just politely suggesting that you put your creativity to use on other ideas.

Let's talk about getting a better selection of AP 1 weapons and more damage types instead. Both of these concepts are very much in line with our role as adiverse defense oriented class.

Message Edited by Thror on 04-22-2004 10:45 PM

---

Here we go again.

Hey, Johnny-come-lately, here is a timeline for you:

Suggestion of an AP2 weapon ---You----------------------------------------------------------------The rest of the fencing community

In other words, your rant was nice, but a bit poorly researched as the idea of an AP 2 weapon was dropped a while ago.

Muttonhead.

---

Well if look at the post i responded to previously in this thread you will see that there are people who still want to suggest ap2 weapons. I would say that only a small percent of the fencer community is on the same page as not everyone is quite a as active as say you and I might be.

Is the general thinking that the imbalance caused by AP2 fencer weapons would mostly be in PvP, or are there concerns that the imbalance would also reach into PvE?

With regards to PvE balance, Fencers-- and, in this case-- Swordsmen, would ideally be balanced because the defenses of Fencer balanced out the damage and AP level of Swordsmen. Is that balance still in effect-- or have buffs and high-end armor negated all the disadvantagesforSwordsmenin regards to PvE?

Buffs and armor might enhance the advantage of Fencers-- the ability to stay alive, but the disadvantage of not doing much damage is still intact--you can't go to a Doctor and getthe AP level of your weapons increased forthree and a half hours.

However, for Swordsmen, buffs and armor seem to have negated the disadvantages. Not just the ability to sustain damage, but also the need to carefully manage your HAM costs in anticipation of how much damage you might expect to take. Please note that I have nothing against Swordsmen. I have heard that's it's hard to play an HS without buffs, so who can blame them for taking that measure?

It would seem there was an imbalance going on already-- the fact thatbuffs andarmorcompletely negate thedownside of the high damaging professions. Unfortunately, this imbalance has become institutionalized-- when designing new content, or rebalancing existing content, the developers seem to focus on higher HAM and higher armor level and resists. Obviously, they're taking into account the fact that the armored, buffed players will be able to chew threw anything less.

There are plenty of mobs that abuffed Heavy Swordsmen, Rifleman, or even a Pikeman can kill, but a Fencercan barely damage. Is the reverse ever true? If the HS, Rifleman, or Pikeman were alsoDoctors, thismight be even more true, but if the Fencer was a Doc, it would make very little difference.

The developers have said that the combat update was in the works. They also said something to the effect that some classes might be leftbehind for a bit while it getsworked out. I hope these issuesget resolved, but in any case, I agree, AP2 weapons for Fencers, while it might serve as a temporary solution, probably would not be the answer to a larger problem.