Fencer Archive

Ok, it’s time to get to work. I just introduced myself on the Correspondent boards, and I’ll be creating a second Fencer on the Test Center tonight as soon as I can get this post finished. As promised, I have compiled a list of everything that has been asked for in the Fencer forums over the past few months, sans certain outrageous suggestions along the lines of the "uber-1-hit-1-killanything-instant-assassination-butterknife-strike" requests. I know it seems like a large list, but I want to get everything out in the open so we can look at it. It doesn't mean we are going to get, or even ask for everything. In several cases oncve fix would satify several issues.

If you have anything you would like to add that is not already covered this list, please fill me in. When it appears we have our issues fairly well wrapped up, we can decide which are the top issues we want to highlight to the Developers first. I’ve divided these up into basic categories.

Fencer Animation Issues

1. Change weapon stutter. When changing from one Fencing weapon to another, a Fencer will halt his running/walking to do so. This halt is not apparent, or at least much less apparent, when changing from one ranged weapon to another. This is an undesirable animation effect and hinders our offensive and defensive capabilities.

2. Begin combat stutter. When beginning combat, or in some cases switching targets immediately after the previous one falls, Fencer come to a complete halt to assume a pre-attack animation stance. This stutter does not exist in the ranged weapon animations. This is an undesirable animation effect and delays our attacks by several seconds.

3. Hit-while-running stutter. If a Fencer attempts to perform an innate defensive maneuver while running, successful or not, he must come to a complete stop. This is an undesirable animation effect as it severely prohibits our ability to maneuver around the combat field.

Fencer Weapon Issues

1. Vibroblade graphic. We sincerely dislike the appearance of the Vibroblade. In fact, it is disliked to the extent that many Fencers (despite that this is probably our most prominent weapon of choice) will unequip the weapon and replace it with something more graphically appropriate to a Fencer when in public and not fighting. It has even been "lovingly" nicknamed "the butterknife," and Chefs often stop us in the cities to ask if they can borrow it to prepare one of their dishes. (Ok, so I was kidding about the Chefs… but it demonstrates our point.) We would appreciate if this weapon’s graphic could extend the appearance of the blade to be more in line with the concept of a sword, even if the functional stats of the weapon remain unchanged.

2. Selection of 1-handed weapons. We would like more Fencing weapon options. The preferred options are weapons that are more "Fencer-like", such as the saber, rapier, epee, main gauche, etc. We would also prefer to stay away from additional blunted weapons. The most requested 1-handed weapon has been a rapier. Perhaps we could have a Vibrorapier as a certification a bit higher up in the Fencer tree? Currently the highest 1-handed weapon certification a Blademaster can acquire is… a stick? One of the prominent concepts in the Fencer community is we want finesse, panache, and elegance as part of our image, rather than that of an alley thug.

3. Rantok sword. We would like the Rantok to be craftable, or otherwise brought more in line with other weapons on its level of certification. It is currently one of our highest certifications, yet the functionality of this weapon is substantially lower than weapons obtainable at lower certification levels.

4. 1-handed Weapons range. Currently all Fencer weapons but one, the Gaderiffi baton, have a maximum range of only 4m. All other melees have the majority of their ranges set to 5m, even Vibroknuckles. While it might make sense that a Polearm should have a longer reach than a 1-handed sword, a 1-handed sword should have further reach than a knuckler. At the very least we would like 1-handed weapons to brought up to the same range available to all other melee.

5. AP and damage types. Do to the lack of Fencer weapons with any AP (we only have the Vibroblade at AP1, and nothing with AP2, all others are AP0) and do to the precedent set by the Stun Baton using "Stun" type damage, we believe we could find our "nitch" by having a wider variety of damage types. Perhaps the new weapons we are requesting could have various damage types to compensate for our lack of AP. They could either be inherent to the weapon, like Stun is to the Stun Baton, or through the application of an Elemental Melee Weapon Power-up. Ranged combatants have a wide variety of damage types from which they can select to exploit the weaknesses in their targets. Fencers currently get to choose from Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, Kinetic, or Stun. This considerably reduces our effectiveness by forcing our damage to always be applied to one of the heaviest and most common resistances in the game.

Fencer Offense Issues

1. Client vs. Server. Do to the lack of synchronicity between client and server we cannot accurately place our Fencers in the correct vicinity of our target. This causes several undesirable effects, the most prominent of which is the inability to strike a target that appears to be directly in front of us and in range but is moving away from us. This is a severe handicap, amplified even further in PVP where it can be (and usually is) exploited by our targets. This impacts all melee professions, but due to the Fencer’s weapon range deficiency the problem is more noticeable to us. Recently we have heard of the possibility of all melee ranges being inflated to compensate for this. While that will certainly help, it doesn’t solve all of the issues related to this.

A suggestion would be to add a command called /stick with an optional range parameter. By default, /stick allows you to "stick" to a selected target at a static range of 1m. This "stuck" status is kept server-side so that even if on our clients we see a discrepancy between where the client thinks we are and where the server thinks we are, we could still attack properly. By allowing a range parameter to be included, a Fencer could /stick at a preferred distance from the target. For example, if our best accuracy was at range 4m, we could type in /stick 4. If the target backed away we would remain locked at 4m unless the target could move away faster than we could close. If the target attempted to close the gap we would automatically backpedal to maintain our desired distance to the target. NPCs already do this, so the basic mechanics are most likely already in place.

2. Speed cap vs. maximum damage limitations. Currently Fencers have a maximum 1-handed weapon speed modifier of +90 (+95 if you consider Master Brawler). While we really enjoy the idea of such great speed to compensate for our light hits, the already fast weapons we have combined with the 1.0 speed cap prevents us from realizing a high percentage of our bonus. Our highest delay weapon is about 3.5 without a speed slice, and only requires +70 speed to reach the 1.0 speed cap. However, the most desired weapon in the Fencer arsenal is the Vibroblade (for several reasons) and the average Vibroblade only requires +60 speed to reach the cap… leaving +30 points (a whopping 33% of total bonus) of speed modifier untapped. Our peer melee professions may only have +80 speed bonuses, but that is still all they require to reach the 1.0 speed cap which allows them to strike at the same speed as Fencers but for far more damage.

Recently we have seen that the functionality of the 1.0 speed cap may be changed (down to 0.5 for Fencers was the proposed number) which would allow Fencers to make use of the finally 33% of their speed bonus. We hope very much that this concept is implemented since a well crafted 1-handed weapon with a speed slice in the hands of a Master Fencer would only have about a 0.1 speed if no speed cap existed. If this is not implemented, the concept of using our available hand to dual wield has been brought up several times. This could either be used with a second weapon to augment our damage enough to be brought back in line with our melee peers; or it could be used to hold a shielding device to compensate for the longer duration Fencers must sustain damage to kill the same target. Perhaps we could even have the option to switch between the two.

3. Status attacks. Recently when the Knockdown adjustments were implemented it became obvious that our other status attacks were significantly penalized as well. Was this intentional? Initially, if a Fencer sacrificed the time and ham to perform a Blind attack the Fencer would expect the target to be Blinded. Since the recent changes it is not uncommon to have to repeat that same attack 3 or 4 times to get the Blinded status to stick. This is a huge investment of time and ham for the relatively small impact Blind status imposes. We request that either the ability of Blind to stick to our target is increased, or increase the impact of Blind to justify the investment.

The same type of problem impacts our other status effect, Dizzy. It has been drastically reduced in both its ability to stick, as well as the duration it lasts. Since the Fencer profession does not grant a direct Knockdown attack, we can only produce such an effect by combining Dizzy with a down posture attack. The only problem is that Dizzy is no so unreliable that no Fencers not only suffer the 30 second timer penalty all other classes share, but we have to attempt it several times in a row to get it to work. Combining that with the 30 second timer on posture changes, Fencers have basically lost their ability to accomplish a knockdown. In affect, the Fencer profession was hit twice as hard with these changes as the other classes. If this was intentional, we request that Dizzy (a significant portion of our special attack resume) be granted abilities beyond those solely associated with posture changes to make it a worthwhile effect, or that Dizzy be replaced with a Stun status attack, or perhaps something that can reduce the targets run speed.(see below).

4. Fleeing opponents. Fencers currently have no way to catch an opponent that attempts to flee, as targets not only tend to outrun us, but we can’t attack an opponent in front of us when we are moving anyway. This problem does not plague the ranged classes do to, well, their range for one; but mostly because they possess ways to stop an opponent from running. One of the most effective methods is to use Suppression fire with is obtainable by every ranged profession and stops a target in their tracks. We request an ability similar to that, but would require the Fencer to be ready for the target to flee. We would like two levels of a special attack that alters the target’s run speed. The first is the lower tier version /hobbleHit which reduces the targets movement rate by half for 30 seconds or so. The target is still free to perform any attacks they otherwise could, so it does not render them helpless. The higher tier version would be /hamstringHit which prevents the target from fleeing at all (or at least reduces movement rate to 10%) for about the same duration. Again the target is still free to perform any attacks they would otherwise make; they are just unable to escape for that duration. Both of thes especial attacks should have an extended reach similar to those of Lunge.

Fencer Defense Issues

1. Dodge. The Fencer community appreciates the concept of getting hit less often by dodging incoming attacks. However, in testing there seems to be very little difference between the dodging abilities of a Master Fencer and a Novice Fencer. We request that the impact that dodge is suppose to create be increased to a level that we see a least a few dodges in every fight. As it stands, Fencers only seem to dodge only very rarely. The Fencer community also realizes that it may be unbalancing to increase the overall impact of Dodge due to the ramifications of Dodge bonuses stacking from the various professions in which it can be found. If this is a problem, can we not add in a One-handed Weapon Dodge that stacks with regular Dodge but not with, say, Pistol Dodge? This way the regular Dodges could still stack with each other for the minor benefits they provide, but when a Fencer holds a One-Handed Weapon they can receive additional Dodging abilities that allow them to remain in the front lines long enough to compensate for their reduced damage output.

2. Status Defenses. Fencers are blessed with many seemingly useful status defenses. They look fantastic on paper, but in functionality the Fencing community has been hard pressed to note any significant changes even before the recent status effect and knockdown changes. In the past when Fencers would be concerned about our reduced damage output other professions would remind us of our "incredible" defenses to justify the loss of damage. Now with the changes of these status to a level where they do very little to ANY profession (providing you can even get them to stick) our Status defenses are practically a set of tonsils and an appendix… yes, we can see they are there, and in the past they may have served a purpose, but they certainly don’t seem to matter anymore. We would like to get these adjusted either to levels that make a noticeable difference, or swapped out with some other (useful) passive defensive abilities.

3. Melee/Ranged Defense and One-handed Toughness. Due to our damage output being significantly behind the curve of our peer professions, we end up enduring our foe’s attacks for a far longer period of time. This means that following an encounter with the exact same target a Fencer will have sustained a significantly larger amount of damage than, say, a Swordsman due to requiring more time to kill the foe. Yet their Toughness allows them to soak up incoming melee damage even better than we do. We can appreciate that our fine brothers the Swordsmen are "tougher" than we are and can take a hit better. In fact, we are all for them having better Toughness that what they currently possess. Fencers are about grace, balance, and speed, …not thick hides. Therefore we would rather have our avoidance abilities increased to reduce the number of attacks that land on us to be approximately equal to the number of attacks that would land on a Swordsman on the same opponent. In other words, (hypothetical example) if a Swordsman only requires 10 seconds to kill SWGMobX and only gets hit with 10 attacks from this target during the battle, a Fencer should also only get hit with 10 attacks from this same SWGMobX, even though the Fencer would require 20 seconds to kill the same target. If the Fencer requires twice as long to kill something, they should be hit half as often to balance out the results. The Swordsman would still come out ahead since they will have been done 10 seconds sooner and can have moved on to another target or healed themselves, so this would not be unbalancing.

Fencer HAM Issues.

1. No ham reduction. Fencers were left out of the recent across the board HAM cost reductions for melee. Is there a reason for this, or just an oversight? At the time Fencers felt we were left out due to a lack of representation. If this is the case and we just slipped through the cracks, we are ready to receive our HAM reductions now.

If instead, Fencers were purposefully left out of the reductions due to a belief that our ham costs were already low enough then we have some interesting numbers to discuss. Even though the ham costs for an individual special weapon attack is quite low for Fencers, we have to practically spam our specials non-stop to try and compete the damage output of our melee peers who might will only need to perform a couple of specials on top of their already significant non-styled damage. Doing so rapidly eats through our ham at an alarming rate. Combining this with the fact that we already have to spend more time taking damage puts us at high risk for incapacitation and death. This means that the efficiency of our ham use is sub-par to our melee peers, and we will need to use a good deal more ham in the same fight than they would.

Specifically, take a look at our Mind costs. Fencers have a higher ratio of Mind costs per point of damage than any other melee profession. So while the other melee professions might take big bites out of their Health or Action bars… this can be quickly repaired on the spot as long as there are even beginner medic skills available. Health and Action can also be buffed very heavily by Doctors while on the combat field. Fencers have no effective way of rapidly restoring the heavy impact our specials have on the Mind pool while in combat. Medics and Doctors just have to stand and watch our Mind plummet until we either incap ourselves, or resolve to do minimal damage. Yes, we know that second tier Entertainers can buff our Mind stats to a degree, but these buffs do not last nearly as long, and can only be received in a Cantina. (Perhaps in a camps too… but you don’t generally find many high-entertainers on the battlefield.) Therefore by the time we can get to the location where these buffs will matter, they are gone. In short, if you can only lower one of our 3 ham costs and the other 3 must remain where they are, please lower the mind costs.

Ok, this is what I was able to dig up after compiling all the Fencer requests to date. For now let’s determine what may have missed getting included in this list. After we are done collecting, we can discuss which of these issues we need to bring to the Devs’ attention first, and how we wish to present it.

~Lyahpar~

La Femme Fencer

"Thrust if you love Fencers!"

Brilliant! Looks like you did a ton of work to compile this request list, and I'm sure that everyone in the fencer community thanks you even if they don't express that fact...

I have just one minor beef though. Skim through your posting again and get some of those "do"s changed to "due"s before you submit it to the devs. Like I said though; It's an amazing piece of work overall. We're darn fortunate to have you representing us.

*Gau /cheers for Raphayl!!!

very nice work indeed.

Truly excellent work. It seems this got posted as I was writing a response to the "In preperation" thread. Please keep an eye on issues/suggestions brought up there aspeoplecontinue topost good stuff in that thread though you really covered all of the big issues here. Wow. Great job Raph.

Rexx

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Skim through your posting again and get some of those "do"s changed to "due"s before you submit it to the devs.

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Yep... I did just that... just seconds after I hit the Submit Post button.

My sword for an edit feature! I normally compose large posts like this in Word which catches most of my typos... but since "do" is not mispelled it didn't catch it. After reading it I noticed I'm also missing the "w" in two of my "now"s turning them into "no"s. Couple other typos as well. Of course you always catch your typos after you post it, and get to feel like a dork. Oh well. I'm sure you guys get the gist. I'll tripple check anything we plan on being a final submission to the Devs. For now we're still just talking among us family.

~Lyahpar~

La Femme Fencer

"Thrust if you love Fencers!"

Raph, are you limited to a "top 5" or anything like old correspondent posts? If so, I'd pick:

1) Stutter

2) Client server distance lag

3) Getting kited

4) Dodge, etc. not doing anything

5) Hitting the speed cap early and missing out on the uber DPS at high speeds of other classes.

Course, I'm not even a fencer, so what do I know?

Aren't any of the special moves in Fencer just plain broken outright? They are in lots of other professions.

WOHOO for you, we are indeed lucky to have you on board, and I can feel you'r really conserned and engaged in our problems, that's a welcome change, you'r a welcome change to our community.

i must admit I have a hard time selecting only one thing to change if we concure (or how ever it's spelled) That only one thing will be changed at first.

But I'll try to put in my order of prefference

1: The lowering of Mind HAM is essentielfor our class an is therefore mymost impending consern.

2: Would be our speed compared to other melee classes, I would love to see this change

3: is deffently our lack of weapondiversity, and I appriciate that it's a top issue, althoug I do not totally agree that the true fencing weapons (rapiers, folios etc.)are the most popular. I have seen areplayed toseveral post conserning this topic. And I have seen yes fencing weapons but also a great request for other one hand weapons, such as longswords, gladius, scimitar (althoug the Ryyk could be considered an Arabian counterpiece) and sabres.But pleaseI beg you,let us not conclude that fencers are only about the three musceteers and Zorro, fencing is also about knights(longswords), samourais(Katanas), gladiatiors(gladius) and What's their names? (sabres) The reason I have not choosen this as my prime choise is that I would like to see gameplay improved before graphics, but it is a major conserne to me.

4: The /Stick and stutter problems

5: Weapon range and ap issues

6: A much overlooked issue, the fact that it is by my experience. Is that it is way more limitations to creating and crafting weapons with enchanments, if it is posible at all.

Hope this is taken to heart, espesially my #3 choise.

I just wanted to post a brief reminder that currently we are still just collecting the ideas. Let's give this a couple days to finish before we start holding votes for the top 5 issue so we don't have future submissions left out of the vote. Let's stay focused

~Lyahpar~

La Femme Fencer

"Thrust if you love Fencers!"

Greetings,

/bow

To know that the DEV's are going to see you posts makes me feel a whole lot better about being a fencer!

Astill

Valcyn

Aurora Noctum