Entertainer Archive

In another thread, I found this excerpt from the TOS:

7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.

My question is this: If we know an entertainer to be AFK for a long period, are we able to /report the player and have something done about it? I don't care if someone decides to be an exp-building bot, but if the person is inconsiderate enough to block the door or spam us with tip begs and emotes, then I would want to report the person.

But if that's the case, where would it end? I have a 10-minute macro that I sometimes hit when I'm doing laundry or eating dinner. The game is still up on my screen, but I'm not touching the keyboard for a while. Could someone report me as playing the game unattened 6 minutes after I start eating, even though I am watcing the screen for tips?

Or is this one of those instances of outlining a rule to be enforced if the administrators cannot find a legal reason to boot someone for being a jerk? The Al Capone theory?

I'm just wondering about this. I wouldn't mind some problem entertainers being removed, but I'd hate to see this exploited.

My understanding (and I am in no way authoritative) is that they are reffering to third party macros. By having in-game macros, they pretty much are asking you to use them. It would be like putting a button in that says "Ban me". just my thoughts...

I think the longest you can set your character not to go AFK is 15 minutes. Anything more than that is absurd in my opinion. If you have to tend to nature IRL, you'll most often be back in that time span. If you're not, it's not going to happen everyday (and if it does, you may want to see a doctor...no, not at the med center, IRL. LOL).

I don't think we're talking about the people that step away from their computer to tend to the latest family emergency or tend to nature. We're talking about the folks that are blatantly disrespecting other entertainers and customers by firing off a macro and letting it run for hours. All day. Every day. Those are the people that give entertainers a bad rep (because they have "Tip me please" as part of their macro that repeats every 5 minutes).

Devs, PLEASE give us an option to have the AFK'ers auto accept duels. I'd really give the paying cantina customers of my fine city a show by dueling the AFK'ers with a Slitherhorn. LOL!

Well UO allowed third party programs to macro but didn't allow unattended macroing. While I've never been on the side of witch hunters, afk macroing (whether it's using a built in feature or a 3rd party program) is against the TOS and is reportable.

I think that with SWG they took the lesser oftwo evils and accepted that repeatative actions needed for skilling up is a bad thing and that when there is a bad thing built intoa game design players will do what they can to get around them (ie macro). Since players will macro it was better for SWG to design an ingame system to do so rather than to deal with problems that are caused with allowing third party programs.

It is a stated fact that long periods of AFK cause strain on game system servers and eat band width in a manner that programers don't encourage. Building macro's into the system does not mean that afk macroing is acceptable only that macroing is.

They've made attempt after attempt to try and stop looping macros and extremely long macros, but people have found ways around both of them... I'm sure they will keep trying to stop them, and I'm sure they have been trying to do it because they don't want you to be AFK macroing...

It is the unattended that is the important word. Using a macro to do a combination of fourishes or to automate the dance part to free up your hands for the interaction part is not unattended.

If you are watching the keyboard and only responding to tips then I would suspect you are not being flagged as /AFK.

Now how do you prove someone is not at their keyboard. Dont know. Even though the legalezze is there, there is no way to prove someone who has been /AFK for hours is not there watching the action.

Whee, 3rd thread I've found on this...the pertinate part of the TOS is

"you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play"

Bascially, you cannot use or make a macro in game or 3rd party that would allow you to play while afk. Macros have plenty of uses but using them to afk level is bannable, plain andsimple.

I don't know how often I need to say this but if you don't want to level your entertainer then you need to choose a class you enjoy playing. None of this starting at the top and working your way sideways.

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Leana_Txorana wrote:

It is the unattended that is the important word. Using a macro to do a combination of fourishes or to automate the dance part to free up your hands for the interaction part is not unattended.

If you are watching the keyboard and only responding to tips then I would suspect you are not being flagged as /AFK.

Now how do you prove someone is not at their keyboard. Dont know. Even though the legalezze is there, there is no way to prove someone who has been /AFK for hours is not there watching the action.

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If I'm munching on a chicken pot pie, I'll put it down just long enough to thank someone for tips. If there are no tips (bad night or a really large band), then I may not touch my keyboard for 15-20 minutes. But I imagine that 15 minutes is not the problem here. I hope that if someone gets a bug up there and tries to report me, I can explain this situation to the /reportee.

But I may try to /report someone who is clearly AFK and being disruptive to gameplay. The person blocking the entrance who hasn't responded to any /tell in the past hour? Report. The same thing being said in 5-minute intervals? Report. The quiet dancer in the corner with an AFK flag on? Whatever. She's not disrupting gameplay, so I wouldn't bother.

I'll be completely honest. I do afk macro, but I don't do so blatently and repeatedly. If I'm close to leveling and want to take an hour nap (hey, some of us fall victim to this "sleep" phenomenon), I'll go find some dark corner somewhere, usually away from the terminal and most highly populated or traveled routes, and afk quietly there. I feel if I'm not going to be able to respond, I shouldn't try to burden others.

But I agree with the above post (mainly cause I fall into that category), that as long as you're not a nuisance to others there, then you are fine. If you cause issues, you should be dealt with in a manner consistant with AK (at keyboard) griefers.

Here's another thought to consider on this. What if I just startplaying musicand leave, with no macro? This crossed my mind, as my Bothan can technicalysample all night long and never stop without a macro (due to high regen rates) and can technically play most of the night (doing no flourishes, of course). How does this strike you, since it, IMO, straddles the line between the "unattended gameplay" and the "macro writing" portions of this passage?

No the TOS is read to be exactly what it says not whatever you wish to imply from it. Tracking down in game afk macroers is not the main concern for CSR at the moment (and most likely never will be) but don't feel that because the game mechanics give you the ability to macro gives you the right to break the TOS that you agree to every time you log into SWG. Whether or not a TOS is a binding legal contract is another matter completly that has yet to be tested fully in a court of law.

How does your interpretation of the ToS differ in relevance from my own, and the different ones from others for that matter?

Aryel - the TOS itself does not specify details. Understand it is a global non specific agreement. Does it define what time period = AFK? No. Does it specific what length of macro makes a macro something that is designed to promote AFK. No.

Believe me, that text is there to deal with players who utilize third party software that either a) modifies offsets to allow greater unintended functions in the game, or b) third party software that allows macroing of things like mouse movement, clicks, etc. that could for instance allow someone to afk craft items.

You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play

The TOS for SWG is a very standard MMORPG TOS, every single game that is on the market has a similar TOS and the debates that range around what does the TOS mean abound.The wordings may be different based on the legal staff of the publishing company however the intents are the same. Very rarely will a member of the game companies legal staff decipher the TOS for the players it is meant to be vague and non specific. Making specific statements forces the company to make even more specific statements as players find loopholes.

The questioned statement covers several principles, modifying data (hacking), 3rd party programs, and unattended game play. All three are relavent.

The TOS is basically a players code of conduct. While it does contain some strict hard rules it is primarily used as a CYA for the CSR allowing them to deny service irregardless of payment.

To reinforce mystatement that afk macroing is considered taboo and against this and other TOS's I would have to resort back to information posted regarding UO and server stability from about five years ago. Since that time every MMORPG has included unattended gameplay as a part of the TOS. As I said before it is not and most likely will never be SWG CSR's primary focus or function but it is in the TOS to be used in the event that enough complaints are lodged against a player as to make that player be considered a problem player and to make CSR decide that the company is better off banning the problem player than having other players quit because of them (it's better for the company to refuse money from one person than to lose money from 10 others).