Entertainer Archive
Thread: Healed BF should = credits from the game (not the customer)
This has probably been suggested before however i figured I'd say it anyway plus give you folks a valid argument why the system needs to be changed. Battle fatigue should result in a direct BF point to credit ratio tip, but not from the player who is healed but from the server itself. This means only small pocket change per customer however it means that every single customer who comes in generates you money, lets say you have ten people who have just been killed and forgot to be bound to a cloning centre. They automatically have 128 fatigue, thats over 1k of profit walking in the door. Yes the system can be exploited if you get your friends to die over and over again, but why is that any different for the medic? The answer is that there is no difference because the medics can equally find a way to exploit the system, thus that 'excuse' can be thrown out the window.
Now some people will argue that it's unfair for the entertainers to be a profession that makes money directly from the server for using their skills, no other profession does that you might say... wrong.
Artisans can directly sample resources from the ground they get exp for it and they can simply macro the while duration but essentially they're getting exp for sitting around doing nothing and the resoruces can then be sold for cash. Thus it's easy money and all they did is use their skills. This extends to the combat and scouting branches too, everytime you kill something you can harvest or loot. One way or another this usually results in items that you can sell either to other players or the junk dealer, so there again you have people using their skills and making money from it. And then needless to say you have the crafters in the game, they get their exp from making and people using their items. They're also the prime examples of people getting their cash for skills.
At the end there is only two base professions who do not have a mandatory way to get money from using their skills, namely the entertainers and the medics. Medic's are a tougher issue to deal with but entertainers are easy. Battle fatigue is both a unique thing they can heal and it's not too common. I say this to you entertainers, dancers and musicians shout loud for this idea, use my reasoning behind the fact you're the only profession that doesn't generate mandatory income from your skills
Perhaps a new type of entertainer gig would be a more realistic and effective method. For instance, instead of entertaining an NPC during a gig, it could be to entertain at a given venue for a certain period of time. This way, the entertainers money has some point of origin. It also makes a fair bit of sense - the cantina/theatre/whatever is hiring you to perform for their customers - you get x amount per hour plus tips.
That's my 2 credits.
Adaral Edulin
I have to respectfully disagree with your idea of the other professions having a mandatory way of acquiring credits.
I disagree with the idea that every profession (with the exception of medics and entertainers) have a mandatory 'credit building' system that is related to their skills. For example, craftsmen and surveyors have to sell their products at a reasonable price in order for someone to buy it.It's unlikely they could sell 1000 widgets at ten credits/resource, when Joe Blow is selling the same thing for five credits/resource. There is the potential that no one may purchase their goods. That is not a mandatory way of acquiring credits through skills.
Likewise,characters who acquire XP through killing mobs (in general) don't acquire credits in a mandatory fashion. They could harvest hides and sell them on the market, but that would fall into the same category of the craftsmen and surveyors. Theoretically, they could hunt NPC's and loot them for credits. But I certainly would not consider that a 'lucrative' way of getting credits, considering the loot is usually minimal to nothing, or the risks of death are too high.
On a side note...Do the entertainers really risk anything or make any significant sacrifices in order to move up their skill trees? Time?Definitely,but what profession doesn't use that? Resources? Not really. Credits? I think this would be at the discretion of the player. Maybe for food,fancy clothing, or an instrument, but otherwise no. Compare those risks/sacrifices to the scouts, surveyors, combatants, medics, etc. Armor, weapons, harvestors, med packs, money for tips to healers/entertainers (especially if they die uncloned...). I guess I can't see a reason that entertainers need an automatic influx of credits when they probably useless of them than any other profession...
Edulin wrote:
My concern with this oprion is the "money from mid air" nature of it. The difference between it and the other methods you list is that the artisan or scout finds something that could reasonably be expected to be there - like, say, ore samples - and then sells them to someone to get the money. The money the artisan gets comes from somewhere. The only money that usually comes from the server is via missions - and there to, at least there's an explanation for the money.
I also would be concerned with the addition of money into the economy.
The SWG economy already has more money coming in than going out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the shuttle fees, bazaar fees, cloning fees, insurance, teachers, etc., do not counteract the huge amount of money the player base is able to get from doing missions.
Another concern I have is that this system would earn me less income than I make now. I'm certain of it.
If such a system were put into place how much would it pay entertainers? One credit per BF healed? I don't think so. A dancer in Wayfar would be racking up 5-10k credits an hour. Probably even more. Well, that's how much he'd make at first. That number would go down greatly as word spread amongst the others that you get free money for doing nothing more than sitting there. Everyone would pick up some entertaining as well, and they won't need you.
So, no, it would definitely not be a 1:1 basis. It would be a smaller ratio, designed to not introduce so much money into the system so quickly. Maybe only 1:5 or maybe as far down as 1:10. And even with such a low ratio, people would still likely pick up entertainer even when they're not interested in it. "Hey, I can heal my battle fatigue and make 50 free credits while doing it. Count me in!"
And what would be the effect of entertainers receiving stipends like this? Other people would wonder why they should tip us at all. Currently, there are just a select group who don't believe in tipping, period. If such a method were put into place, those who tip us may decide to put their tips elsewhere. Because, after all, an entertainer can no longer issue the typical sob story of, "We only make money based on the generosity of others."
So, I am vehemently opposed to this idea. I think it would only destablize the economy (I have no idea if it'll even be stable in a year), and it would hurt entertainers in the end.
Likewise,characters who acquire XP through killing mobs (in general) don't acquire credits in a mandatory fashion. They could harvest hides and sell them on the market, but that would fall into the same category of the craftsmen and surveyors. Theoretically, they could hunt NPC's and loot them for credits. But I certainly would not consider that a 'lucrative' way of getting credits, considering the loot is usually minimal to nothing, or the risks of death are too high.
I never said it was lucrative i said that they get credits just for using their skills. Lets put it this way, every time you kill an animal you can get a resoruce. If you then sell it for say 1c per unit or less then you'd have people buying it hand over fist. ONLY the crafters need to actually buy low and sell high in order to make money, the fighters just go out with zero cash and come back with things they can sell. Thus creating money just for using their skills. Survayers too if they even sold 1000 units for 1c then still they're making money for just using their skills. There is no 'expenditure' on their behalf except time.
You have a problem with the cash coming out of thin air? LoL so you'd rather be poor than to have a 100% rational reason for why you're getting money? ok then how's this for a logical reason then. The establishment pays the entertainers a wage for how happy they make the customers, the more they work the more they get.
Also explain to me why the entertainers gigs missions is any different than money appearing out of thin air like i suggested?
As for the economy, the developers are fools if they think they can control it. This is a player economy and thus it's driven by players, if they increase the difficulty in gaining resources then prices will increase but then you have an issue with people struggling to make anything and you end up with the game being no fun at all.
Tal-N wrote:Also explain to me why the entertainers gigs missions is any different than money appearing out of thin air like i suggested?
In a strictly program mechanics sense, there is no difference. Credits are added to hte players hands that were not in any players hands before. it's an addition to the player economy. However, from an RP sense, which many people like to see maintained, an NPC offers money for the gig, a similar rationale is needed for the money for BF idea. I agree with the statement earlier that they could not make this a 1:1 ratio because in some areas the income would be approaching ludicrous levels for entertainers. Any other ratio, and the amount is almost non-existant for an entertainer in some of the tamer areas.
This is why I like flat rate gigs at cantinas as an idea. It's easily implemented - the mechanics are basically already there. It's similar to a real situation - the entertainer gets a flat rate from the establishment, and if he/she does a good job and makes the patrons happy, he/she will get tips. And it's fair - an entertainer performing in Wayfar is in no more danger than one performing in Theed. They may be in a bit more demand, so they gigs can be a little better paying in the more dangerous areas.
I also agree that this would cut off most tips that entertainers see since now they have a source of income independent of other characters - which,despite your arguments, other professions only have through missions. Your argument that an artisan could sell resources at 1 cr/unit and make money hand over fist only works until his cheap prices force others out of business and drive the price down until 1 cr/unit becomes the standard or he himself goes out of business because they cannot afford the high expenses involved in running their business.
All in all, though I wouldn't be opposed to additional money, after having read the arguments I don't believe that the added money from outside the player economy is necessary - if you play it smart there's plenty of money to be had in the player economy for entertainers, and despite the loud cries of how terribly people tip, there are some excellent tippers running around who pick up the slack.
Adaral Edulin