Entertainer Archive
Thread: Deila's On the Role of Entertainers, Game System and Economy
Questions have been put forth lately regarding whether entertainers (dancers and musicians, in particular) are "buffing classes", or hold some other role in SWG. Here then is a part ofthe "Philosophy of Deila Karlossi" on the topic, and that of the greater role of entertainers within the player-driven SWG economy. Perhaps it can stimulate discussion in order to further focus just what the role of entertainers are, or could/should be, within the greater game experience.
I don'tbelieve thatentertainers are a "buffing class" by design. I think that we were intended to be a social class... one that would cement community together in the game, and be a sort of semi-permanent community in the player hubs(cantinas). I've said these things before in other threads. After all, it can be difficult, as we've seennow in the underpopulated cities and cantinas throughout the game, to convince players that there is a hub of activity (i.e., a place to find others tohunt with or perform desired other services)going on in a location devoid of other players.
I think that healing and buffing are just ways to integrate our true purpose into the greater SWG system... to have some kind of game mechanics to draw others to the social centers if socializing alone would not do it. It has the added benefit of having a plausible storyline to it; entertainers take ourpatrons' minds off ofthe horrors of war for even just a little while(mind and BF healing), as well as "psyche up" the spirits and resolve (buffing)of those who indulge in some R&R. But I think that the plausible storyline and accompanying integrated gamemechanicsshould not overshadow our true role in the overall system... that of what I will call "magnets of activity" for the player gathering points envisioned by the devs... the cantinas andshow halls. The mechanical side is important to our roles in the economy; the underlying true purpose of the social draw is important to the overall game system.
Is this enough to warrant a true profession; i.e., one that costs skill points?
In order to warrant the expense of skill points into a profession, orgaming path, there must be sufficient reward offered to the player of that profession in terms of satisfying game play and/or the ability to function within our player-based economy. As we are discussing the role of healer/buffer, as well as of social magnet, I will limit discussion for now to the economic aspects of entertaining.
Entertainers must have an integrated role, or we cannot participate in a player-driven economy. We would not need to be healers or buffers to participate, although we would need to have some form of game mechanic that ties into the overall system the way that most, if not all, professions do. And those game mechanics - the "services provided" - must also hold the ability to generate revenue, that can in turn be returned to that economy through the purchase of other goods or services. This is how player-driven economies must work - any profession who falls completely outside of the mechanical co-dependency of an economycannot participate in that economy. So I say... it need not be healing in our current sense, but it does play along nicely with our true intended purpose. And if not healing, what mechanic/role could adequately replace it?
The only question then becomes, how strong is our position to be able to participate ina player-driven economy if healing and buffing services are our mechanical ties to involvement in that economy?
Now BF and mind wounds are going to be healed in any case. All other things being equal, Entertainer A and Entertainer B had the same capacity to heal you, the only difference being time. Seeing as how both Entertainer A and Entertainer B can do the same thing for you, the question of who should be subsidized to play in the cantina had to depend on some other factor. Thus, the more exiting, gregarius, and fun one to be around got the incentives to stay in the cantina from the grants of the players that came to him or her, and the one who was boorish, did not care about being fun to be around, and had everyone looking at thier character screens to see when the BF was finally healed, got nothing.
Eventually, the boorish entertainer found out that they wasted enough time in the cantina for no real financial reward, and said to themselves, "Maybe I shouldn't quit my day job," and left to pursue other things. However, the real exiting dancer or musician, the one that players would rather see in the cantina got enough of a financial incentive to say, "Wow! With tips this good, why shouldn't I just stay here?" This person eventually learned new skills, refined their craft, got to know the locals, and KEPT ON BEING FUN TO BE AROUND. Because if they didn't, there was always up and coming talent that perhaps could do the job better than they, and they'd be out of a job. Now, while it is true that a Master Musician or Dancer can heal these things a lot faster than a novice, it really only meant that the Master did not have to work with as much of a time element. It was still possible for a raw novice to get more in tips than a lackluster master, because BF and mind wound healing speed was really never the issue...EVER. Nobody needed to tip to get these things healed. They could be healed by any entertainer. They tipped because some entertainer was able to do these things in a more pleasing and lively way than others, and they wanted to make sure that THESE were the people that were in the cantinas, rather than out earning a living in other ways.
Now players have come up to me and said, "why in the heck would you log on only to see these dull, drab walls all day instead of going out and having fun?" Frankly, I didn't even know myself at times. Entertaining can be, for all intents and purposes, a very boring profession. That is why they have to tip people to do it. The few that like it are so rare that they want to make a living doing it, but they also knew that they had to work ESPECIALLY hard to gain the support of the community through tips in order to be able to stay, because what they really have to offer is not really all that special, and is something EVERYBODY with 15 points in novice entertainer can do.
Now that is how entertainers were designed to be played. Entertainers never really chose to be entertainers. They may have picked up a novice skill, but they did not keep it for long if spending time in the cantina was not worthwhile. Rather, entertainers were RECRUITED by the community, and given incentives to do what they do, do it as often as they can, and do it with the greatest enthusiasm they could muster, so that characters could LOOK FORWARD to getting their BF healed, instead of having it be a chore. This model, however, rests on the assumption that only people who are playing have an influence on the world. You and I know, however, that both players and non-players have an influence on this world.
But an unattended musician or dancer does not have to worry about boredom. They don't even have to worry about getting tips. They don't have to worry about these things because they are not playing. They are not staring at the four grey walls all day. In fact, they are able to do things live players physically cannot do, because live players can do two things:
1) Heal BF and mind wounds.
2) Buff.
Unattended characters can do the following:
1) Heal BF and mind wounds.
2) Buff.
3) 24/7 perpetual service.
4) Does not need any incentive to do so.
Now this changes the original intent of how entertainer is to be played entirely. People do not need to subsidize people who play to be in the cantinas. Those things can be done by non-players. People do not have to choose between the person who plays Entertainer A and Entertainer B, because neither entertainer has to be there at all. The character without a person behind it can do the job...and what's more, we don't even have to make it worth their while to do it! I got a glimpse of this in the game by going up to a wookiee one day and said, "May I dance for you tall, dark, and furry?" and I got the reply of, "Nah, I'd rather see her instead." Now seeing as the only one who was in the cantina at the time was an AFK dancer, I said to him, "But she's the type that 'doesn't talk'." You know what he replied? He said, "Yes, but she doesn't care if she get's tipped or not. If I start talking to you, you'll expect a tip. So I'm watching her instead." Its kind of like a free lunch. It may taste like garbage, but if it satisfies your hunger, its infinately preferable to one that may taste better, because its FREE and does the same basic thing.
Its simple economic principles at play. All other things equal, there is a demand for BF and wound healing across the worlds and cantinas. In order to satisfy this demand, entertainers will be more than willing to supply it if they can get a reasonable price for their offering. The price and ammount of healing resources will meet at some point whereby a fixed quantity of healing resources will be available for a fixed price. However, change one of the variables, and the point changes. Right now, we have entertainers who create an unlimited supply of entertaining resources for free, and this sends the demand for entertainment resourses in the toilet. Now the only way one can radically alter the variables in this way is if you radically alter the conditions by which the environment is influenced. And certainly, the means to "not play to the best of one's ability" is the anomoly in question.
The argument has always been made that the brawler at 4AM would NEVER get their BF and mind wounds healed if not for unattended entertainment. I do not know how one could make this statement. Because who knows what characters would have come foreward to satisfy the demand for wound and BF healing had the demand gotten great enough. Indeed, with the ability to not play and have an effect on the game world the same as when one is playing, there is absolutely NO economic incentive for ANYONE to actually play an entertainer at 4AM, because the supply of entertainment is so readily available and free for the taking is that the very few people who do play at that time would be wasting their efforts.
And this is ONLY because players are able to influence the game world by not playing in ways that in every way do the same things as players. And this I think is why unattended entertainment is an issue.
Great post, PoetDancer. I would like to add one other thing that I have suspected as well to your observations.
If it was difficult to obtain BF or mind healing at 4 am, and people would be willing to tip for this service, an opportunity comes into play. There would be potential tips going unclaimed... and you know that very soon that opportunity would be recognized. Economies are not vaccuums - they are the antithesis of such. If a money-making opportunity arises and the money goes unclaimed, someone steps in to fill that void and claim the reward.
/agree
Thanks for posts, and can I subscribe to your newsletter?
The purpose of healing is to get the character back in "fighting shape" as quickly as possible, at least in the minds of the combat characters who are the ones to need the healing most often.
If live dancers aren't providing that service, people will take other steps to provide the service.
I think that the entertainer community's best chance at long-term survival is to realize that the buffbot provides a valuable and desired service for the vast majority of players, and to figure out ways that they can coexist.
Now, I can feel the flames coming for this one, but I'll bet if you put it to a community-wide vote with only two choices:
1) Ban all afk healing/buffing by entertainers to improve roleplaying and allow entertainers to compete in the economy, or:
2) Make all mind healing/buffing automatic/some other scenario where "socializing" between entertainers was nonexistent but healing and buffing was fast, and constantly available, even if it was expensive...
I think you'd have 2 by a landslide.
So, why not concentrate on the roleplaying aspects of the profession that most of you obviously prefer, and leave the healing/buffing to the bots? Or else, compete on price and speed with the bots and still make a mint, especially since you don't spend anything on materials.
There is stiff competition between doctors, with several buffers working at a time in the big cities on weekends. However, you can still make a fortune as a doctor by offering a top quality service at a low price.
Most people just don't roleplay. Trying to force the issue is only going to drive more of us into the player cantinas after the holo thing is over, which will diminish your customer base further.
You have an opportunity here. A huge percentage of your competition is about to disappear after publish 10. Use that chance to provide fast, hassle free heals and buffs at a competitive price and the money will be there.
Xyrdre wrote:DIV>
A temporary shortage of entertainer healers does not grind the game to a halt; if you really need that BF healed at 4 am and there aren't any entertainers, simply sitting in a cantina will heal it - just the same as sitting in a med center or camp heals your wounds if you can't find a doc.
I would stop playing the game if I were no longer allowed to socialize and role play as my character. Would you care? No. But, its still the cold hard fact that most live entertainers would walk if something like that were implimented - all the ones I know, anyway. And the already fragile but groundbreaking player class that the SWG created would crumble into dust, being made into nothing more than a solatary NPC buffbotlocated inevery cantina.
You misunderstand the concept of our class. We are not here to heal you. We are not here to buff you into an ubber-fillintheblank for the next 2 hours. We are not here to be created into the image of your ownmaking. The class was created to socialize and give all players a little downtime and enjoyment. We are the teeming masses who don't want to kill-kill-kill all the time, but like to play games, too.
Most of the people on this forum seem to feel that healing and buffing are secondary tasks for entertainers, almost a necessary evil that allows you to make some money so you can support your character through the "real" aspects of dancing, socializing, and downtime.
However, most of the clients feel the exact opposite. I'm not saying that people don't like to socialize. I have met a bunch of great people in this game. Many are my guildmates, whom I am happy to see on line each day and a few of whom I can see turning into long-term real life friends.
Some of the people I meet are not guildmates. They are people who frequent the same places that I do, and I enjoy talking to them.
However, when you meet a combat character in the cantina, they are usually in the middle of or on the way to hunting or killing something. This is not social time for many of us, we are already en route to whatever we plan to do that day. Or worse, we just got killed and we want to get back there. Perhaps there is a group of people waiting for us, dependent on us to finish a task.
We need an entertainer and we need one fast. There is just not enough staffing of the cantinas to facilitate waiting on the "real" dancers to show up.
I was very impressed to see a group of TKDS players come through our city one night on the way to take down a base. Most people are familiar with their reputation on Corbantis as a top-notch, organized PVP guild. They were completely self-contained, travelling with their own doctors, musicians, and dancers. I can only imagine that this is because long experience has told them that they will not encounter a healer when they need one. This keeps them from being able to complete what they need to do, so they bring their own.
We seem to be at a stalemate here. I don't think anyone is consciously out to ruin the gameplay for dancers. I also don't think that dancers take any pleasure in preventing players from being healed when they need it.
Perhaps healing/buffing should be done in some other way, so that you guys can socialize and we can get healed. Of course, that would cut off what income you have left. I don't know.
I would welcome any workable suggestions here. I don't want to spend all the skillpoints of my alt on musician/dancer, but it is unacceptable for me and my guildmates to be without heals and buffs when we need them.
Your guess is as good as mine here.
kirah_ashlin wrote:You misunderstand the concept of our class. We are not here to heal you. We are not here to buff you into an ubber-fillintheblank for the next 2 hours. We are not here to be created into the image of your ownmaking. The class was created to socialize and give all players a little downtime and enjoyment. We are the teeming masses who don't want to kill-kill-kill all the time, but like to play games, too.
I think another, and possibly better, direction than craftables is dramatic improvements to the way that players can find each other.
The existingsystem for showing that a particular cantina is staffed just doesn't work very well. A lot of people don't even know it exists. If I'm personally dancing in an "out of the way" location, I remember to register with that location... but it doesn't seem to help, because people either don't know how to check the world map for staffed locations, or they don't understand the strange glyphs on the world mapused to denote "staffed". Even then, the staffed status, as it is now, is often incorrect.All too often, I receive tells from a player I've never metasking if I could come to X city and dance for them, and I have to respond that I'm in that city's cantina dancing away right now. Very strange, since they must've used the player search function, which when I've used it lists if a 'hit' is in the city I'm currently in. Perhaps this isn't working right all the time either.
I encourage entertainers to be willing to travel. If a player contacts me, I'm more than willing to go out of my way to 'work'. And I'm compensated for the extra travel... that little extra bit to help cover my traveling expenses doesn't usually dent the bank accounts of the classes who need a house call. You may have to negotiate a price beforehand, as some entertainers have told tales of traveling great distances to help others only to end up being stiffed, but I think that those few occasions are the exception. My experience has been that players are all too grateful that I was willing to drop what I might have been doing tocome to their aid, and they've taken care of me financially formy care andeffort.
So far, I have not heard one mention of entertainers and their role in performing at player events. This is really where we come into our own AND we get compensated for it. Even combat-types appreciate the organization and skills required to put on a show with 4 dancers and 5 musicians jammin' away in sync. (no, not the boy-band)
I run a very successful band/dance troupeon the Tarquinas server (heck, the ONLY long-standing band/dance troupe on the server.) I suppose this falls into the 'roleplaying' portion of the entertainer profession, but when we've put on concerts or played at PA Hall openings, birthdays, weddings, etc. even combat-types stop and stare (and tip!) This is the true 'end-game' for the entertainer profession, IMHO. And the recent addition of the effects modules for droids makes the showbiz possibilities even bigger.
Just thought I'd throw that out there...
Ra'ano Thexia, Solar Flair Band Manager
Tarq server
AG-941 wrote:
So far, I have not heard one mention of entertainers and their role in performing at player events. This is really where we come into our own AND we get compensated for it. Even combat-types appreciate the organization and skills required to put on a show with 4 dancers and 5 musicians jammin' away in sync. (no, not the boy-band)
I run a very successful band/dance troupeon the Tarquinas server (heck, the ONLY long-standing band/dance troupe on the server.) I suppose this falls into the 'roleplaying' portion of the entertainer profession, but when we've put on concerts or played at PA Hall openings, birthdays, weddings, etc. even combat-types stop and stare (and tip!) This is the true 'end-game' for the entertainer profession, IMHO. And the recent addition of the effects modules for droids makes the showbiz possibilities even bigger.
Just thought I'd throw that out there...
Ra'ano Thexia, Solar Flair Band Manager
Tarq server
Oh, I agree completely... especially about the role of being a desirable and famous act being hired to perform at player events as an end game - one ultimate goal to strive for.
The reason that I didn't address this directly is that my original post is geared more at the core basics of the professions. Our reason to exist in the mix. Our role in the overall game system, and how we relate to a co-dependant profession system as we have in SWG. It is my fear that if we do not address these core issues to really find our place in the system, that there will be no end game. There is a danger that our role in the greater system balance might be forgotten, and replaced. We could become obsolete, and chalked up as a failed experiment in adding social roles to an MMORPG, and this is something I would like to avoid.