Entertainer Archive
Thread: Master Entertainer Box making it wanted by all Ent profs
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DarkY0da
Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:10 am
#1
I think all novice master boxes should have something in them that pertains to the elite professions that are built off there trees. Those perks should be WANTED badly by enough people playing those professions that they then go and pick up that Master Box(many make the mistake of saying they "need" things when in reality they just want them really badly).
In Master Ent we have it set up perfectly for Musicians currently. With a unique instrument and song. There are many Musicians with out those items. And for the most part they all really WANT those things.
But there is currently NOTHING in it that works like that for dancer or ID.
A few suggestions for abilities that would be really wanted by players enough for them to pick up the Master Ent box.
The ability to teach anyone the dance basic1 for a limited amount of time. But would this really be something that a dancer looks at and thinks to themselves I want that ability bad enough that I'll pick up that box ?
For ID different body tatoos/peircings then would be put into the Master ID box.
Any other ideas suggestions that would HONESTLY make YOU pick up Master Ent so that you could have that ability ?
In Master Ent we have it set up perfectly for Musicians currently. With a unique instrument and song. There are many Musicians with out those items. And for the most part they all really WANT those things.
But there is currently NOTHING in it that works like that for dancer or ID.
A few suggestions for abilities that would be really wanted by players enough for them to pick up the Master Ent box.
The ability to teach anyone the dance basic1 for a limited amount of time. But would this really be something that a dancer looks at and thinks to themselves I want that ability bad enough that I'll pick up that box ?
For ID different body tatoos/peircings then would be put into the Master ID box.
Any other ideas suggestions that would HONESTLY make YOU pick up Master Ent so that you could have that ability ?
DarkY0da
Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:40 pm
#2
Hmm I meant more that Master ID would get Piercings and Body Tats through a quest(something along the lines of the Music/dance quest/Would also make an interesting option for loot drops that could be used for tats) While Master Ent would have DIFFERENT piercings and Body Tats(or something).
I also think like the Xantha for Musicians should be gained through a quest.
But my question to you on "holo-emotes" is would that make you WANT Master Ent sooo badly that you would honestly consider picking it up ? Don't pass of an un-wanted ability on a Master Box. The point was to give it something along the same lines as ceremonial and the Mando are to a Musician.
I also think like the Xantha for Musicians should be gained through a quest.
But my question to you on "holo-emotes" is would that make you WANT Master Ent sooo badly that you would honestly consider picking it up ? Don't pass of an un-wanted ability on a Master Box. The point was to give it something along the same lines as ceremonial and the Mando are to a Musician.
Message Edited by DarkY0da on 03-06-2005 01:42 AM
Maisland
Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:47 am
#3
DarkY0da wrote:
For ID different body tatoos/peircings then would be put into the Master ID box. (I am figuring that you actually mean that this would be for the Master Entertainer box, not the Master ID box.)
I can see it now...
- Customer: I want one of those body tattoos.
- ID: Sorry, that is a Master Entertainer ability and I could not afford to spare the skill points to pick up Master Entertainer so i can't do that.
- Customer: But you are a Master ID!
If this scenario does not show that such an ability added to the Master Entertainer would be a NEED for MIDs, I don't know what could.
If ANYTHING is added to the Master Entertainer box for IDs, it should be something like special Holo-Emotes... or a Temporary Craftable item. Thta would be something that IDs would regard as optional. Body tattoos would NOT!
Message Edited by Maisland on 03-05-2005 11:52 AM
Maisland
Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:25 am
#4
DarkY0da wrote:
But my question to you on "holo-emotes" is would that make you WANT Master Ent sooo badly that you would honestly consider picking it up ? Don't pass of an un-wanted ability on a Master Box. The point was to give it something along the same lines as ceremonial and the Mando are to a Musician.
If I had the skill points to spare, then yes. However, any PERMANENT change I would feel would be something I could not afford not to have on my MIDs. My own take on this is that no base Mastery should have something that would be regarded as so important that it would be taken solely for that one skill.
Neither Brawler, Marksman, Medic nor Scouthave anything that could be compared to Mandovial/Ceremonial in terms of being desired.
Master Artisan is worth taking not because of what the Master box grants, but because of the total package of all of the Artisan skills... even so, it has nothing in the Master box comparible to Mandovial/Ceremonial.
Why should Master Entertainer be so different from any of the other base Masteries? If anything, the dances granted in Master Entertainer are more comparible to the specials granted to the other basic Masteries than Mandovial/Ceremonial.
P.S. You also need to consider the fact that, for an ID to take Master Entertainer, it would cost them an additional *48* skill points.I have 3 Master Musicians... 2 of which are also Master Dancers with some ID, the 3rd is only a musician... guess which ones can play the mando. 
Contrast thsi to the fact that I have IDs on virtually every server where I play... and if Body Tattoos were added to Master Entertainer, I would feel that they all HAD to take it... that they ALL had to spend those *48* skill points to basically get ONE skill from the Master box.
None of my MIDs has more than the basic dance/music skills and my MD/ME/MMs who have some ID only have minimal ID skills (just enough that they can do stat migrations and one can do a few Holo-Emotes).
My suggestion of Holo-Emotes and/or small temporary craftables for Master Entertainer are things that would be worth having, but not required... not worth *48* skill points either, I'll admit, but then, in my opinion, neither is Mandovial/Ceremonial. I don't think any of the basic masteries should have anything worth *48* skill points.
Message Edited by Maisland on 03-06-2005 12:46 AM
NJ62
Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:17 am
#5
It is better to make Master ent worthwhile for its own sake rather than necessary to play a "complete" profession. ID is gimped enough as it is - we can't even make money on makeovers until master because we don't have "everything." If we needed master entertainer to have "everything" nobody would go to an ID who wasn't master entertainer.
I don't think the mando and ceremonial should be there either, but rather somewhere in the musician tree. No other master elite profession "requires" the master novice profession box to be "complete" and we should be gravitating away from making it that way rather than trying to stuff all sorts of goodies for each of the three professions into the master entertainer box.
I don't think the mando and ceremonial should be there either, but rather somewhere in the musician tree. No other master elite profession "requires" the master novice profession box to be "complete" and we should be gravitating away from making it that way rather than trying to stuff all sorts of goodies for each of the three professions into the master entertainer box.
DarkY0da
Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:16 am
#6
I think all Novice master boxes should have something in them so badly wanted by those Elite professions built off their trees that people are willing to spend that 48 or what ever is extra to get it. None of it should be "needed"(by needed as a pre-requisit to use any of the skills or abilities from the Elite Profession.) But like I suggested in my example for musician and ID is that the masters of those elite professions could gain access to their own unique versions of those items.
Other wise just remove Master Novice boxes as they are worthless for the most part and not even remotely worth the SP investments.(that would of course mean that any Elite needed a master box would just get moved to where it only needed all 4 trees)
Other wise just remove Master Novice boxes as they are worthless for the most part and not even remotely worth the SP investments.(that would of course mean that any Elite needed a master box would just get moved to where it only needed all 4 trees)
Maisland
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:57 pm
#7
DarkY0da wrote:
I think all Novice master boxes should have something in them so badly wanted by those Elite professions built off their trees that people are willing to spend that 48 or what ever is extra to get it. None of it should be "needed"(by needed as a pre-requisit to use any of the skills or abilities from the Elite Profession.) But like I suggested in my example for musician and ID is that the masters of those elite professions could gain access to their own unique versions of those items.
Now see here... if something is WORTH the 48 (or whatever) skill points, then it becomes a "must have" thing and not just a "would be cool" thing. I agree with N'Jessi on that the basic Masteries should be worth having for their own sake and not be given things that the Elite Professions would feel are needed to be "complete."
Once again, my suggestion of special Holo-Emotes and/or small temporary craftables would fit this requisite.
NO ONE SKILL should EVER cost *48* skill points! NO basic profession should EVER have something that a member of an Elite proffesion would want so badly that they would SPEND *48* (or whatever) skill points just for that ONE skill.
Hobbytla
Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:29 am
#8
There is no justification to make master entertainer a pre-requisite to being a full service ID.
It's unfortunate about the musicians, but this is the exception, not the rule for thestarting professionsmaster boxes. If anything I think that contentshould be added to musician instead of forcing the other master elite professions to get the ME box.
Scout - get no new abilities, only bonuses to skill mods.
Medic - 1 new ability: to make Stim D, and bonuses to skill mods. However - to be combat medic or doctor you need to have master medic, so the only profession who don't benefit from this would be BE, who need the chemistry-tree - this isnot aloss for a BE, especially since they can BUY the stim D from a vendor for personal use.
Marksman - 1 new ability: Overcharge Shot 2 (overcharge 1 is in the novice box so not a unique special), plus skill mods bonuses.
Brawler - the 2 version of all abilities granted in Novice box, no "new" specials, only better, plus bonuses to skill mods.
Artisan - No bonuses to skill mods, but can make new items. However, since these items can be purchased, there is no need for a weaponsmith who need a control unit to have Master Artisan - he can buy this from a MA vendor and chose not to spend the skill points. The vehicles are unique items sold to players as MA items - no armorsmith will grit his teeth over not being able to provide them on his vendor.
Forcing ID to get the ME box to be able to provide full services to people is like putting parts of the Bio-Engineeringabilitiesin Master Medic only.
If Master Entertainer needs to change, in my opinion it needs to do something else, something unique, but without withholding content from the elite professions. It's better to think about what an entertainer is, and what would it mean to be a Master Entertainer. A master entertainer in my opinion shouldn't neccessarily be someone who can do a little bit of dancer, musician, id, but something unique which goes beyond those professions. In a way like master artisan - where would we be without our vehicles? But building them is not neccessary for any of the other artisan professions to function.
I've already suggested earlier that perhaps things in way of event planning could be a way to go - perhaps special bonuses to the customers or party-goers, a critical part in a fame system, etc. If people don't like this, I'm sure there are other things we could imagine being in the realm of a "master entertainer" - go ahead and think up something.
Failing that, perhaps think of the equivalent of skill mods stacking in terms of BF healing or even the buff bonus. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to choose if you want to buy the +25 tapes, or spend the skillpoints for ME?
Or how about if you had ME + MM or MD you could buffall mindstats without having to master both professions?
This is more about skillpoints than anything else. I know I'm not the only ID who combines IDing with Tailoring. Being forced to have Master Entertainer would make it impossible to also have merchant. Not even master merchant - simply MID and MT will hinder my merchant abilities, adding ME would make it impossible to have any merchant skills of use.
I'm not with this saying that entertaining is somehow worthless to me, I also have an entertainer character and most of all my char have some ent skills if they can afford it... but ID is more connected to tailoring than with dancer/musician. And putting any kind of permanent ID skills with ME would make it neccessary for an ID to have it. Customers have no clue when you learn what, and why should they? Putting any permanent features in the ME box only would be the equivalent of putting the color blue for tailors in the M Artisan box. If they put all of the tailoring components in the master artisan box - fine, I wouldn't be happy, but I could buy my supplies on a vendor. But not being able to do blue? Why? And the color blue would be strange for a master artisan too - the clothes they can make are very limited. So - it would in effect have very little effect on the master artisan players only, but force the tailors to also have master artisan. It would be worse actually, since if a tailor can't make blue clothes, there simply would be no blue clothes to choose from on their vendor. But an ID provides their services in person, which will make people very frustrated if they don't know who to ask for what change. The MID can't make the body tattooes, but the Master Entertainer can't provide all the other services which an ID can.
I'm sorry if I have overstated my point, it's not really directed at the original poster but more in a general way stating my opinion in the matter....
I just think it's better to make Master Entertainer a unique choice, rather thanrobbing the other elite professionsof content.
If no-ones imagination stretches that far, then go look for ways to add skill mods to ME instead like with the other starter profession master boxes. The only real skill mods as I understand is to wound healing. Which you can get by clothes, and has been changed now anyway, to not being very slow to heal. BF has become more important however, and although I haven't tried to confirm this on the forums, I can swear that all my combat characters sustain way more BF now then they every have before. My master combat used to reach 250 BF (the magic number) after several intense buffsessions of fighting, now she has sometimes 5-600 in ONE buffsession. I was wondering if I was going crazy but my boyfriend has noticed it too. With the changes to healing times etc, it wouldn't surprise me if this is all part of the CU in some way. (and hehe, perhaps even the "EU"!?)
If you've read this far, Thank you....
Allia_Rain
Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:23 am
#9
I'd go with giving Master Entertainer some speicals that don't tie directly into the elite professions. I like the idea of giving them some sort of event organisation bonus, although I can't see how that would be implimented.
Hobbytla
Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:51 am
#10
Suggestions for event planning could be: To be able to actually book a venue (theater, hotel, private cantina) and advertize it in-game without having to resort to spam or forums. Book entertainers and accept guests at the time of the event (perhaps with a secure payment window!)
There would be certain bonuses to attending such an event - perhaps for combats bonuses to skill mods (watching a certain dance&music could give defensive bonuses, applying temporary ID "warpaint" could give bonus to intimidate/warcry/warningshot), for civilian use ability to teach non-entertainers a temporary dance/music ability, etc....
You could also tie a potential fame system to visibility on these booked events, and make the bonuses for the event more powerful based on the quantity and/or quality (fame) of your entertainers.
That's the short version anyway - I now have post-fatigue and need to play for a little bit 
LyteFoot
Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:45 am
#11
I used to support the mando/ceremonial in the master ent box. I've come to hate it. I love my mando so I won't give up master ent but do you have any idea how often I use the ID or dance tree? OK the answer for ID is NEVER and for dance is so rarely that it might as well be never. However to keep that mando I give up so many other abilities I would like to have like more scouting or a tiny bit of surveying or maybe enough med to throw stims on myself. I don't mind having to chose between ability sets it is part of the game but to have to keep two whole skill columns that I never use so I can be a complete musician is stupid and painful at times.
I love being a musician and personally I feel that to be the best at that profession I need to be able to play every song and instrument, otherwise I don't feel I'm truely a master. There should be no reason that I need master ent to be a complete musician any more than I need master brawler or master marksman for the elite melee and ranged professions. As a master rifleman it would have been nice to be master marksman because it would have capped my aim but it wasn't necessary. If it had been necessary I could never had mastered rifle and CH because I needed so many scout columns that I would not have had the points. I never fired pistols or carbines so why would I need those skills? As a TKM I don't use swords or pikes so why force me to learn those skills? That is exaclty what master ent does to musicians that want to be a complete musician.
[edit]
One additional thought. Master dance and music are already hit harder than any elite melee or ranged profession as it is. The combat professions don't require but one column from their base professions while we already have to have two from ours. The Mando/ceremonial issue puts master musicians at a severe disadvantage compared to almost any other skill besides ranger. It is just too many skill points required to be a complete profession.
I love being a musician and personally I feel that to be the best at that profession I need to be able to play every song and instrument, otherwise I don't feel I'm truely a master. There should be no reason that I need master ent to be a complete musician any more than I need master brawler or master marksman for the elite melee and ranged professions. As a master rifleman it would have been nice to be master marksman because it would have capped my aim but it wasn't necessary. If it had been necessary I could never had mastered rifle and CH because I needed so many scout columns that I would not have had the points. I never fired pistols or carbines so why would I need those skills? As a TKM I don't use swords or pikes so why force me to learn those skills? That is exaclty what master ent does to musicians that want to be a complete musician.
[edit]
One additional thought. Master dance and music are already hit harder than any elite melee or ranged profession as it is. The combat professions don't require but one column from their base professions while we already have to have two from ours. The Mando/ceremonial issue puts master musicians at a severe disadvantage compared to almost any other skill besides ranger. It is just too many skill points required to be a complete profession.
Message Edited by LyteFoot on 03-07-2005 08:48 AM
Drygo
Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:37 pm
#12
I think Hobbytla explains things exactly how I see them, but has done so better than I could've. I hope he/she doesn't mind, but I copied and pasted that post to a thread in the musician forum.
I also want to bring up the skill point issue. The dancer and musician professions already cost more skillpoints than elite combat professions. And, most of us can admit these days that our elite professions don't mean much in the way of income and interdependency because of the buffbot plague. I hate so much the fact that the mandovial is part of Master Entertainer. That's required SO MANY skill points just to feel complete as a musician, for so little game mechanical advantages. Yeah, we are entertainers because we enjoy it. But, we should not have to have Master Entertainer to feel complete. I mean, give us a break. We already spend so many skill points withnot a whole lot leftover to actually do something else. We can master 3 professions (not counting pilot and politician). Tobe a musician means you can really only master two professions. As Hobby said, Master Entertainer should have enhancements, not requirements. The analogy to the color blue in reference to Tailors and Artisans is right on the mark.
DarkY0da
Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:19 pm
#13
Well the question then is holo-emotes, moving Cermonial and the mando into musician and putting in some unknown trinket... would any of you honestly go on to learn Master Entertainer ? I know I sure wouldn't. I'm like 2sp short of being able to use my Ad barker droid and as I don't currently use the ID line at all(I have friends work on me) I would drop it in a heart beat. And use that for something that could be useful,helpful,wanted,needed,make me some more money from mining...
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