Entertainer Archive
Thread: CU Update General Feedback
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LeBob
Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:04 am
#1
Please use the following thread for any further discussion on this topic:
So, I read half of that thread, but it's very long... If you will, please post your general feedback here concerning the following document:
Please remain constructive.
Message Edited by LeBob on 04-01-2005 03:31 PM
Jagii
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:05 am
#2
As far as I can tell, the basic gist of the CU upgrade document (as it pertains to entertainers) is that entertainers will be further disconnected from the combat game. In my opinion, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, from what I've gathered from reading posts and asking entertainers on my server is that what most entertainers are worried about, aside from their time and money investment in gaining/enhancing their healing and buffing abilities (which is not the issue I wish to discuss in this post), is how to attract patrons and make money.
The evidence clearly shows that without healing or buffing abilities, the tools that entertainers have - image design (excluding stat migration), dance, music, and visual effects - are NOT sufficient to make your average player want to come and interact with entertainers. So what will attract people to entertainers? I don't know.
I wrote a letter in Chilastra, and hopefully it is being distributed among the entertainer population as we speak. In it I'm asking entertainers for their input on what kinds of features they'd like to see for themselves, and what kinds of features the general population would like to see. I will compile the feedpack and present it someday. I'm doing this in hopes that some of the ideas will enlighten the developers and present them with a variety of things that they could possibly work on to improve the profession.
Here are a couple previously suggested ideas, just for example:
- A gaming interface that allows entertainers to host games and allow for easy execution of basic game procedures, like dealing cards or paying into a pot.
- Enhancements to text-based entertainment (singing/poetry/comedy/etc.) such that it is not interrupted and visually appealing.
I realize that there are a whole lot of good ideas floating around on the boards, and I will try incorporate these into the document as well. The main reason for writing a letter is to reach those who do not read the boards for whatever reason.
Now I just need an honest opinion: Is this list likely to fall on deaf ears, or is it a worthwhile endeavor?
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
The evidence clearly shows that without healing or buffing abilities, the tools that entertainers have - image design (excluding stat migration), dance, music, and visual effects - are NOT sufficient to make your average player want to come and interact with entertainers. So what will attract people to entertainers? I don't know.
I wrote a letter in Chilastra, and hopefully it is being distributed among the entertainer population as we speak. In it I'm asking entertainers for their input on what kinds of features they'd like to see for themselves, and what kinds of features the general population would like to see. I will compile the feedpack and present it someday. I'm doing this in hopes that some of the ideas will enlighten the developers and present them with a variety of things that they could possibly work on to improve the profession.
Here are a couple previously suggested ideas, just for example:
- A gaming interface that allows entertainers to host games and allow for easy execution of basic game procedures, like dealing cards or paying into a pot.
- Enhancements to text-based entertainment (singing/poetry/comedy/etc.) such that it is not interrupted and visually appealing.
I realize that there are a whole lot of good ideas floating around on the boards, and I will try incorporate these into the document as well. The main reason for writing a letter is to reach those who do not read the boards for whatever reason.
Now I just need an honest opinion: Is this list likely to fall on deaf ears, or is it a worthwhile endeavor?
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
Ikewe
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:56 am
#3
where to start...
With the removal of all but health wounds our ability to even level to the elite entertainer professions becomes much more difficult. Do they plan to substantially increase BF and thus require combat players to need refreshing more often? That seems to defeat the entire purpose of the other changes so I doubt that's the plan.
With the increase in skill points for many of the elite combat professions they make it much harder for hybrid templates. Those of us who chose to be support characters with healing and fighting are getting the very short end of the stick with these changes. Surely there was a better way to prevent stackers from dominating?
Changing the ability to equip various weapons and armor means entertainers can no longer use these items as props and costumes. Not all entertainers equipped weapons just to keep from falling. I've seen numerous dancers who made routines specifically for a curved blade who will now be forced to either take on that combat skill or scratch that performance from their list. For entertainers with no combat skills and no ability to wear armor they are completely defenseless. Many cantinas require running a gauntlet of thugs to enter (Mos Eisley, Bestine, Moenia, the Pirate Outpost on Dantooine, etc...) just how exactly are entertainers supposed to run that distance now? With some armor it was possible to survive long enough to outrun these thugs. Now it will take only a few shots in the back to send the pure entertainer to the cloner.
They need to release some sort of profession plan for the entertainer professions. I personally chose to become an entertainer because I liked being a support healer. If that's no longer the role of the profession then there's no reason for me to keep it and I can alter my game plan now. I'd rather not wait until May only to learn I've been wasting all this time on a completely dead profession.
cheers,
Ikewe
Gorai
Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:09 pm
#4
Blair wrote:
Weapons and Armor
- As your character progresses through the skill tree, (s)he will learn certifications for certain weapons and armor types. Until your character has that certification, you cannot equip weapons or armor of that type.
This is the only thing, I'm worried about. I have two characters one pure combat and one pure entertainer. This part of the update, will means No more weapon or Armor to make my dance routinesor my dance outfits. But I will wait til CU finally Hit. I hate to drop this profession I love. But itfeels like any non-combat profession is getting a big back hand slap to the face.
shadowdefender
Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:14 am
#5
Here are my concerns:
Removal of every bar but health = no more mind buffs - I never hated buffing people in fact wrote out a few fun scripts (like.... mmmmmmm thank you for letting me influence your mind today etc etc) - but that is not the major issue - the major issue is that because we are not being revamped with the CU we will have a ton of experience to get to level (new players) and the inability to get this experience. From what I understand Battle Fatigue will not need to be healed daily - more like weekly. We have a whole tree devoted to mind buffing - that to me is wasted skill points - why not shave off 16 xp from both Musician and Dancer like they did ID. That would allow us to persue other paths in addition to keeping our now non functional professions.
They claim that they removed 16 skill points from ID because they wanted us to be able to Master all of the Entertainer professions but now it seems very apparent that they shaved 16 off ID because they were dropping stat migrations from the profession when the CU goes live.
So your removing mind and secondary buffs from us - shave some skill point requirements off - BF will be hard to come by - shave some off. This could be done now on the current system that is in DEV that has the dances and songs and ID mods that way when CU goes live we at least get some skill points freed up so we can do something productive while we wait for the devs to figure out how to revamp us and make us a viable profession in the game.
They gave us "the no more falling piece of candy" in the current dev build - only to find out that they removed falling because in the current alpha of CU we won't be able to hold a weapon. What about costumes - I have a great pair of mabari pants with a low cut top - love this outfit - worked with Groove on a production and we danced to Mr. Roboto - the lead dancer wore composite to look like a droid - it was HOT the crowd loved our rendition of the song - this type of thing wont be possible in the future.
Removal of every bar but health = no more mind buffs - I never hated buffing people in fact wrote out a few fun scripts (like.... mmmmmmm thank you for letting me influence your mind today etc etc) - but that is not the major issue - the major issue is that because we are not being revamped with the CU we will have a ton of experience to get to level (new players) and the inability to get this experience. From what I understand Battle Fatigue will not need to be healed daily - more like weekly. We have a whole tree devoted to mind buffing - that to me is wasted skill points - why not shave off 16 xp from both Musician and Dancer like they did ID. That would allow us to persue other paths in addition to keeping our now non functional professions.
They claim that they removed 16 skill points from ID because they wanted us to be able to Master all of the Entertainer professions but now it seems very apparent that they shaved 16 off ID because they were dropping stat migrations from the profession when the CU goes live.
So your removing mind and secondary buffs from us - shave some skill point requirements off - BF will be hard to come by - shave some off. This could be done now on the current system that is in DEV that has the dances and songs and ID mods that way when CU goes live we at least get some skill points freed up so we can do something productive while we wait for the devs to figure out how to revamp us and make us a viable profession in the game.
They gave us "the no more falling piece of candy" in the current dev build - only to find out that they removed falling because in the current alpha of CU we won't be able to hold a weapon. What about costumes - I have a great pair of mabari pants with a low cut top - love this outfit - worked with Groove on a production and we danced to Mr. Roboto - the lead dancer wore composite to look like a droid - it was HOT the crowd loved our rendition of the song - this type of thing wont be possible in the future.
Message Edited by shadowdefender on 03-21-2005 06:17 AM
Acornia1
Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:53 am
#6
One thing that has only seen two entries on in all the CU post that I have read and am worried about . How will the currant in-game bugs effect our play in CU and "Rage of Wookies" along with any new bugs that may be injected into the game with them.
For the new non-combat all entertainer sub-class:
1. How will the bug with missing NPCs in the delivery missions waypoint collum of light effect us in the long run?
This may be currantly do to the NPC AI that causes non-combat NPCs to run from area where there is a fight or an object that next to the waypoint sight. I have seen this many times in Theed and Moenia on Naboo with more bug reports sent in about it than I care to count. If someone if spawn camping the waypoint area such as the Thugs in Moenia it may be three days or more before the server can put the NPC in the waypoint so you can complete the mission. That is if you don't get mad and abort the mission first.
2. How long beforeall the spam from all the security checks in the cantinas get to the point that we leave and refuse to play in them. I have seen many times where there are three to six security checks going on at one time in the same cantina or one enters as the other leaves.
2a. Sub-note to above two and the CWG: For those of use who would like to unlock our FS in time and have declared a faction. How are we to do entertainer missions/quests that sends us to perform in cantinas checked by the other faction. Get scaned, Tefed and killed before we can complete the mission and get out of there.
For those entertainers taking one combat line.
How will the kill mission bug with lairs and mobs spawning inside buildings effect us. Now days, myself just have to abort the mission after sending in a bug report on it.
Any of us could go on and on about the bugs in the currant game, but these I thought are the most important to me and other entertainers over the long haul.
One last thought on all of this. I have not seen anything posted on how a non-combat entertainer will be able to unlock the basic FS slot and village, or even if we do the village if the skills we can unlock will be of use to us.
Jutewr
Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:52 pm
#7
Thunderheart said:
Entertainer changes are outside the scope of the Combat Upgrade.
We're gettin' nothin'. 
darkk1138
Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:40 am
#8
Hello,
To be considered within the CU:
- whether mind buffs will still play a role will be affected by the scaling of its effects and the scaling of the combat itself. As long as there will still be several situations where one will definitely want a mind buff, I guess we should be fine.
- I hope there is nothing changed regarding the effects of the buff. Dance should enhance the pool stat, while Music addresses the regeneration stat. Also, I hope that both buffs will play an equal role, so that getting both buffs gives you a significant greater edge than just getting one of the buffs.
- With removal of mind wounds, BF should play a greater role so people do actually visit the cantina. For example, let increasing BF decrease either the regeneration or the pool or both of Mind and Action. There would be no weapon inflicted mind wounds, but for the entertainer it would be equivalent. Given it is scaled correctly.
To be considered outside the CU:
- Armor and Weapon certification is a problem regarding costuming. Should the devs decide to make the certification system strict (i.e. instead of having disadvantages when using armor/weapons you're not certified for, you'll simply not able to wear them), they should add an option for costuming. An idea for this would be to add new craftables for ASs and WSs, like "Sample armor pieces"/"Sample Weapons", which would have no protection/could not be used as weapons, but in return could be worn/equipped by everyone. Of course these sample pieces have to look like the originals. =)
More information needed:
- What will keep the entertainer performing? I.e. I've set my Quickness and Stamina both to 1100, so it's no problem to do 5 flourishes per 10 seconds. Is action food needed just for performing? Is action food needed for buffing? Or use stims? Or...? Especially, in which way will different species influence this?
To be considered within the CU:
- whether mind buffs will still play a role will be affected by the scaling of its effects and the scaling of the combat itself. As long as there will still be several situations where one will definitely want a mind buff, I guess we should be fine.
- I hope there is nothing changed regarding the effects of the buff. Dance should enhance the pool stat, while Music addresses the regeneration stat. Also, I hope that both buffs will play an equal role, so that getting both buffs gives you a significant greater edge than just getting one of the buffs.
- With removal of mind wounds, BF should play a greater role so people do actually visit the cantina. For example, let increasing BF decrease either the regeneration or the pool or both of Mind and Action. There would be no weapon inflicted mind wounds, but for the entertainer it would be equivalent. Given it is scaled correctly.
To be considered outside the CU:
- Armor and Weapon certification is a problem regarding costuming. Should the devs decide to make the certification system strict (i.e. instead of having disadvantages when using armor/weapons you're not certified for, you'll simply not able to wear them), they should add an option for costuming. An idea for this would be to add new craftables for ASs and WSs, like "Sample armor pieces"/"Sample Weapons", which would have no protection/could not be used as weapons, but in return could be worn/equipped by everyone. Of course these sample pieces have to look like the originals. =)
More information needed:
- What will keep the entertainer performing? I.e. I've set my Quickness and Stamina both to 1100, so it's no problem to do 5 flourishes per 10 seconds. Is action food needed just for performing? Is action food needed for buffing? Or use stims? Or...? Especially, in which way will different species influence this?
Message Edited by darkk1138 on 03-24-2005 01:48 PM
Message Edited by darkk1138 on 03-24-2005 01:49 PM
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