Entertainer Archive
Thread: My take (admittedly skewed) on entertainers
As I was playing for a few folks last night, I was reminded how little interaction there is between entertainer and crowd. Getting people to notice that there really IS someone paying attention while they're playing music seems to be a pretty tough task. Hence, my suggestion:
Remove the 'listen to' from the audience's radials. Add a 'play for' to the entertainer's radial. If someone wants their fatigue healed, they have to contact the entertainer - then I would KNOW who's listening to me play. I already know how my tippers, healers are - but I don't REALLY know who my true audience is. And the lack of interaction between people turns me into some sort of weird mechanical function people have to 'use' to get their fatigue back.
I remember on the forums before the game was released that ideas like this were brought up... At the time, I didn't like them. It adds a bit of annoyance factor to the entertainer. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a RL perspective. But something needs to change the current dynamic where people treat entertainers like a shield recharge terminal in Unreal Tournament. Maybe it's some of our own profession's fault - with the afk roboting and other nonsense. But this would fix that as well... Anyway. Just my two cents. Comments would be appreciated.
I agree. Remove the automative healing/fatigue and place it on the radial! It gives entertainers some meaning. No need for the rude denyservice cmd. Simply they wont have service unless they ask! Great post!
For the lovely person who downgraded the 5 stars, you could at least let us know why you didn't like my post?
WatchingOne wrote:
But something needs to change the current dynamic where people treat entertainers like a shield recharge terminal in Unreal Tournament. Maybe it's some of our own profession's fault - with the afk roboting and other nonsense. But this would fix that as well... Anyway. Just my two cents. Comments would be appreciated.
WatchingOne, while I applaud the exploration of concepts to foster interaction, I'm concerned your particular idea automates it.
Getting people to notice that there really IS someone paying attention while they're playing music seems to be a pretty tough task
I see this as part of the mechanic of actively being an entertainer by trade. Many entertainers I know already have macros for strung-together song sequences. I personally go back and forth. I have some sequences that are timed as long as 30 flourishes and others that I just form in realtime with the hot keys.
But in either case, this is while I'm in spatial chat talking it up with the crowd. People see and hear me actively playing an entertainer, which is a combination of the music and the speech I put out. I always thank for tips (which I chat-filter-colored to blue) and Action heals (whichI filter-colored to gray), but also always have a running dialog with the audience, large or small.
The issue I think for the casual musician is the atmosphere created by the AFKers. I have no problem with AFKing. I don't think people who entirely AFK'd their way to MM/MD will be keeping those titles long anyway (you can only enjoy an empty achievement for so long). But what it has done has had people assume the Cantina will be populated by AFKers. They end up getting surprised when someone's actually there (which of course is a good social opening anyway 
).
I don't feel we need a way for the game to automate an interaction between active entertainers and active viewers/listeners. I do think we need people to recognize there are actual people behind the instruments and dance moves.
But I put that responsibility in the hands of the entertainer because, let's face it, entertainment is mostly about who you are. The game provides us tools, but our personalities define how we use them.
WatchingOne wrote:
Thanks for the kind words, FS - and also for the 5 star rating...
For the lovely person who downgraded the 5 stars, you could at least let us know why you didn't like my post?
I didn't even rate the message, but I'll tell you the problems I see with the suggestion.
- Stationary performers must try to target players in a crowd to grant healing. A dancer can use Formal to move a bit, but it's limited. Related to that, a small group of griefers can get in your way so you cannot select the rest of the audience.
- As stated by someone else, those musicians that have to sit down have an even more limited range of view than dancers.
- You realistically cannot pick and choose who enjoys your performance (a reason I was opposed to /deny).
- It forces an entertainer to stop entertaining and to click multiple times. Some people avoided being crafters for this very reason. This would also make them avoid entertaining.
While the idea does seem to have merit, I feel that the downside far outweighs the benefit. Right now, the problem is the AFK dancer. This implementation would make the AFK problem seem small in comparison.
Not to discourage you from ideas, of course. This has been brought up before, which is why I was able to list those reasons so quickly. Welcome to the boards, regardless.
I must be an odd person. Personally for me I don't care if people listen, although I find they usually do seen as I'm a master. I just play because I find it fun! Tips don't matter to me...who I wind up healing or not healing doesn't matter to me. Even after it was implemented I haven't once used /deny. I have a great time playing music and chatting with my band mates and customers...there must be something wrong with me....
Aphrael Spritewise
Scylla server
In this game, you have to assume that everyone is hearing or seeing you. If they're excited, they really will clap, applaud, cheer, and hopefully drop a few credits in your fizzz case. If they're not into the show, it's your job as the entertainer to elicit (sp?) the response you are looking for. Beckon people out of the doorway, welcome them when they come in the room, smile and nod and ask how their day is. Make jokes if it's in your character to do so. Even better, if you're not the funny type, then make obviously bad jokes. The role we play in game mechanics may be a subservient one, but that doesn't mean you can't liven things up in the process.
Hedayo wrote:
If you want my opinion, I see no need to change the way entertainers work now. In real life, entertainers stand on the stage (or sit behind the piano, or walk through the crowd, whatever) and ply their trade. Whether you're in a smoky blues bar full of mystery and anonymity, or whether you're in a well-lit ampitheater, the effect is the same - If you play, everyone can hear it.
Ahh - but that's not the case here. They can't hear me until they 'choose' to hear me. It is a little shift, but it's a shift that requires interaction while still following the same logic.
In this game, you have to assume that everyone is hearing or seeing you. If they're excited, they really will clap, applaud, cheer, and hopefully drop a few credits in your fizzz case. If they're not into the show, it's your job as the entertainer to elicit (sp?) the response you are looking for. Beckon people out of the doorway, welcome them when they come in the room, smile and nod and ask how their day is. Make jokes if it's in your character to do so. Even better, if you're not the funny type, then make obviously bad jokes. The role we play in game mechanics may be a subservient one, but that doesn't mean you can't liven things up in the process.
And I couldn't agree more. An entertainer's first job should be to entertain - the healing is secondary. Unfortunately, system mechanics don't make this distinction clear. A non-entertaining musician heals just as quickly as an entertaining one. There's not gonna be an easy way to install system devices to encourage that. The system CAN however encourage interaction - which I believe is the dev's underlying desire for these types of professions... And right now, the system does the opposite - it encourages people to stay quiet and 'un-noticed'.
If a person claps and cheers, but doesn't tip - there are entertainers who will put them on a deny-service list. People now seem afraid to interact UNLESS they're ready and willing to shell out a decent tip. People go into 'stealth' healing mode these days - they're trying to stay unnoticed by the entertainer, for the most part. I was all in favor of the denyservice code - thought it was a great idea. I've changed my mind after seeing the subtle change in crowds... If you already have a support group of people who know you and how you operate, you're not going to have seen this. But when you play for strangers, I think it's real obvious that it's had a negative effect...
Fix the Ommni and Nala first and this would be okay with me.
Please note that I don't mind the way it works right now, with the audience listening to me.
Quasinart wrote:
I must be an odd person. Personally for me I don't care if people listen, although I find they usually do seen as I'm a master. I just play because I find it fun! Tips don't matter to me...who I wind up healing or not healing doesn't matter to me. Even after it was implemented I haven't once used /deny. I have a great time playing music and chatting with my band mates and customers...there must be something wrong with me....
Aphrael Spritewise
Scylla server
You hit the nail right on the head. Even when coming up.....well, except for that last bit of Healing XP I needed 
...... I always play for the fun of it, having fun with the bandmates, and still enjoying the music.
I must be weird too. Well, I know I'm weird cause I still like to hear SW1. 
Kuildeous wrote:
WatchingOne wrote:
Thanks for the kind words, FS - and also for the 5 star rating...
For the lovely person who downgraded the 5 stars, you could at least let us know why you didn't like my post?
I didn't even rate the message, but I'll tell you the problems I see with the suggestion.
- Stationary performers must try to target players in a crowd to grant healing. A dancer can use Formal to move a bit, but it's limited. Related to that, a small group of griefers can get in your way so you cannot select the rest of the audience.
- As stated by someone else, those musicians that have to sit down have an even more limited range of view than dancers.
- You realistically cannot pick and choose who enjoys your performance (a reason I was opposed to /deny).
- It forces an entertainer to stop entertaining and to click multiple times. Some people avoided being crafters for this very reason. This would also make them avoid entertaining.
While the idea does seem to have merit, I feel that the downside far outweighs the benefit. Right now, the problem is the AFK dancer. This implementation would make the AFK problem seem small in comparison.
Not to discourage you from ideas, of course. This has been brought up before, which is why I was able to list those reasons so quickly. Welcome to the boards, regardless.
Gotcha. Shoulda known you smart folks had already come up with the idea... My apologies for not checking out the folders before I came barging in.
I'll wander back to the places I'm more comfortable in.As for the griefing/moving/clicking stuff, I typically think in keyboard commands... That sorta thing didn't even occur to me.