Entertainer Archive
Thread: ID style Buffing interface?
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SakeO
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:34 pm
#1
I think adding a buffing interface, as opposed to the simple typed commands, along the lines of the new ID interfaces could be a great addition. It would allow both parties to be aware of how the buff is progressing and would allow easier tip negotiation. It could also have the added side effect of eliminating the practice of AFK Buff-bots. As long as it would still allow intricate performances, it could solve many Dancer/Musician problems.
SakeO
Drygo
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:37 pm
#2
In a way yes. The ID interface is way too big. I would suspect that a buffing interface wouldn't have to be nearly as big because there's really nothing you need to see except perhaps a timer, or a flourish counter. It could be made rather small.
But, beyond that, you have to take into consideration group buffing. It would be pretty hellish I think to have 19 interfaces around your screen, each counting down buffing time for each person that you're buffing. I think perhaps as an alternative, a simple system message at the beginning which says, "you have started to buff so and so" And, "so and so's buffing is complete" might be preferable.
Then again, on the other hand, I almost like how you don't know. Hear me out on this. 
I've been dancing for a very long time, I've got my buffs down to a science. I'm what you might consider a Master Buffer. And, I didn't get that way overnight. I experimented, I asked questions of other dancers before me, and I read the forums. I took it upon myself to actually *learn* how to buff. I consider that to be part of playing the game. It's sort of a "perk" you get by actually caring about your profession and taking the time to expand your knowledge base. People on Kettemoor have specifically come to me because I *know* what I'm doing.
I've been dancing for a very long time, I've got my buffs down to a science. I'm what you might consider a Master Buffer. And, I didn't get that way overnight. I experimented, I asked questions of other dancers before me, and I read the forums. I took it upon myself to actually *learn* how to buff. I consider that to be part of playing the game. It's sort of a "perk" you get by actually caring about your profession and taking the time to expand your knowledge base. People on Kettemoor have specifically come to me because I *know* what I'm doing.In a sense, if a timer or window let everyone know what they're doing, that takes away a little from my skill set, and a little bit from the "wow, you're fast" or "wow, you really know what you're doing" or "You give a better buff than that buffbot I went to the other day, I'll be back." kind of thing. You know what I mean?
Now, this isn't something I'd be pissed about if they implemented. I can see how it can be very useful. But, in some ways, I kind of like it the way it is. What I *would* be greatly in favor of, however, is if there was a system message, where, after you're done, it tells you, you have buffed so and so's mind by this many points. That way, the musicians will *know* that their buffs worked. I feel for them on that one. I can always tell if a dancer buff works. The musicians should be able to do so as well. A system message at the very beginning that also says that the buff has started would be great. That way you know after 30 seconds whether it has or not and you can start all over rather than wasting 10 minutes only to produce a failed buff. But, a timer or status bar during the process? I kind of like being known as someone who gets it right because I know what I'm doing.
Also one thing to keep in mind...you say it would have the added side effect of eliminating the practice of afk buffbots. I'm not sure that's true. If both the buffer and the buffee have a status bar, then the buffee would know *exactly* when to leave the buffbot. As it stands now, however, that's the one saving grace for those of us who know how to buff. I have heard several complaints from people getting buffed where they say they followed the instructions of the buffbot and only got an hour buff. If they got the status bar, they'd be able to completely use the buffbot until they got the full buff. I think that would more likely make buffbots easier to use. On the other hand, they can come to someone such as myself who could tell them when the buff is done, and be accurate, get the full 2 hours, and be happy and amazed that I'm so good at what I do.
PS...after rereading what you wrote...I now understand what you were talking about with the buffbots....That is, make it a manual "commit" or "accept" that can't be done with a slash command. Sorry for being dumb. 
Yes, I agree that would be nice. I think they should take away the /join command personally, which would solve many problems. But, I think if they just had a "buff" option on the radial dial, which was the only way you could buff, that would be great too...as well as system messages and/or interfaces. I hope you don't think I was poo poo'ing your idea, because I wasn't. Anything to help would be great...just offering some alternatives, because as an ID, I know how unweildy those windows are.
Message Edited by Drygo on 06-15-2004 08:44 PM
Reiella
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:56 pm
#3
Hmm.
Well, it could be limited to active buffing [and include a bundled secure trade service]. And have a 'display' on current status on the buff in the window.
For group/passive buffing, I don't know. At best you'd have (19*2) bars showing [one for Buff % and one for Buff Length, no?] for each person because their watch pattern may be at different times... Although a simplified 'group buff' interface that 'forces' all in the group to be synched. One Problem: Distance, Solution: Make the buff only valid for those in range when it starts and throughout the period, and perhaps just have a list of names of who in the group is recieving the buff. Or possibly just intergrate it into the group interface and have a 'dummy buff status' bar [or set of bars] in the group panel to address. UI issues are lengthy and time consuming though
.
Fun idea none the less.
Well, it could be limited to active buffing [and include a bundled secure trade service]. And have a 'display' on current status on the buff in the window.
For group/passive buffing, I don't know. At best you'd have (19*2) bars showing [one for Buff % and one for Buff Length, no?] for each person because their watch pattern may be at different times... Although a simplified 'group buff' interface that 'forces' all in the group to be synched. One Problem: Distance, Solution: Make the buff only valid for those in range when it starts and throughout the period, and perhaps just have a list of names of who in the group is recieving the buff. Or possibly just intergrate it into the group interface and have a 'dummy buff status' bar [or set of bars] in the group panel to address. UI issues are lengthy and time consuming though
.Fun idea none the less.
Tarnak_Archvold
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:05 pm
#4
If buffs had to be directed throe words a specific target, and that target had to be chosen from a list of the audience in a popup window AFKing would be made a lot harder. Now if the buff it self had a secure trade like interface window where its duration and power was listed, on the entertainers side and a tip was listed on the revisers side, then AFK buffing would become impossible, but it would also become les depended on player skills.
SakeO
Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:08 pm
#5
Great comments guys, keep 'em coming. I am looking for answers to improve the application of buffs and maybe solve some other problems, not a pat on the back. If you think my idea will not work, feel free to say so.
I love the idea removing "/join" as a command. I can't think of any valid reasons for it.
Another possibility is requiring a typed-in name or randomized number code, like in re-deeding houses, to confirm the start of the buffing process.
SakeO
KeyTokikoMima
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:43 pm
#6
I think all a Buff / Entertainer EnhancementUIwould need is 8 flourish buttons, a drop down for current song/dance, a progression indicator, and abuttonfor /setperform %TT that shows the person's name when pressed down. It wouldn't need to be much bigger than thesystem monitor window.
Allthe UIwould have to do is light up 3 of the 8 flourishes every beat, or 8 seconds. You thenselect any one ofthose three, and the progression meter goes up. Select a non lightedone, and it goes down half a step. The meter also rises over the course oftwenty minutes.
So a person doing no flourishes could buff every 20 minutes, still. Howevera person pressing the correct lighted sequence could buff in a relatively short time just by being ATK.
There could also be bonus aspects... perhaps an occassional specially lightedflourish, that causes total buff amount to increase slightly? These kinds of bonuseswould happen randomly, but more often, depending on your Skill Mods.
I'd also be in favor of removing '/flourish' commands and '/setperform' from the list of usable '/ ' commands.
KeyTokikoMima
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:48 pm
#7
SakeO wrote:
I love the idea removing "/join" as a command. I can't think of any valid reasons for it.
SakeO
If they removed /join as a command, people would use '/ui action defaultButton' to join buffbotgroups.
That's not bad though!
There's a host of other things that respond to '/ui action defaultButton,' such as duels, Image Design Confirms, and other stuff that you wouldn't necessarily want to have your AFK avatar auto accepting...
Let's do that!
Xyrdre
Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:19 am
#8
KeyTokikoMima wrote:
There's a host of other things that respond to '/ui action defaultButton,' such as duels, Image Design Confirms, and other stuff that you wouldn't necessarily want to have your AFK avatar auto accepting...
Let's do that!
You mean we'd finally be able to shoot them?
/cheer!
That's all I've asked for all along... let them bot, but if I want to shoot them, I get to shoot them.
Ahhh... okay, that was a fun little thought. Now back to your regularly scheduled reality.
Warryyr
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:20 am
#9
SakeO wrote:
I think adding a buffing interface, as opposed to the simple typed commands, along the lines of the new ID interfaces could be a great addition. It would allow both parties to be aware of how the buff is progressing and would allow easier tip negotiation. It could also have the added side effect of eliminating the practice of AFK Buff-bots. As long as it would still allow intricate performances, it could solve many Dancer/Musician problems.
SakeO
This was presented as a question by the Musicians to TH in the "19 Questions" post a few weeks back. The answer was that all UI programmers were on JTL, and after that and Jedi maybe they'll look into this - but the question was horribly misinterpreted, and was answered with something similar to this:
"Buff recipients can already see their buff in the buff window, and on their Stat Sheet. As for buff duration, we can look into putting something into the game that will tell you that. All UI programmers are currently on JTL, though so you won't see anything like this for awhile."
Now, of course, the question asked was mainly for the BUFFER to have an interface, not the BUFFEE. For Musiciansespecially, it'd be nice to know if we even buffed someone without blindly relying on their honesty about it. When they put Musician buffs in, they botchedit - we can't tell if we really buff anyone. (Can YOU see someone's mind secondaries? Yeah, neither can we.)
Echinacea
Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:35 pm
#10
Hmm...is there anything to the Image Designer application of design or stat migration other than a simple countdown? 'Cause we've got to consider not just the time factor but the expenditure of Action as measured by doing flourishes, too. But...man, it would be so nice if we hadsomething like the ID interface where we applied the buff, it measured how much we were flourishing and adjusted the time remaining until a 2 hour, 10 second buff was applied, and had the space for us to accept or reject that buff being actually applied based on what was in the credit exchange portion.
/sigh Wishful thinking. Time to go kill Janta to be able to afford more music mind enhancement SEAs.
Beery
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:22 pm
#11
"I think adding a buffing interface, as opposed to the simple typed commands, along the lines of the new ID interfaces could be a great addition."
I'm totally in agreement on this. It's something we should have had since the buffing ability was added. It will solve so many problems, and since it exists for ID, there's already a template in place that the developers merely have to adjust to suit the slightly different (simpler) needs of entertainers. It's a simple and effective solution, and it has the added benefit of solving the buffbotproblem, and to a lesser extent the AFK problem. It has to be the optimum solution. Hopefully the developers are considering it seriously - hard to tell really, what with them being ashamed to show their faces in the entertainer/dancer/musician forums.
Kreistor
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:49 am
#12
Xyrdre wrote:
You mean we'd finally be able to shoot them?
/cheer!
That's all I've asked for all along... let them bot, but if I want to shoot them, I get to shoot them.
Ahhh... okay, that was a fun little thought. Now back to your regularly scheduled reality.
Sorry, I read this and just had a flash of what the spamming AFK buffbot would see in their log if they went back to see why they were in the Cloning Center...
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
Do you accept ReallyTickedOffLiveEntertainer's duel request?
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
*/knockdown/dizzy/whamwhamwham/dead*
/db
Would you like to be cloned at the nearest cloning facility?
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
You haved been cloned nowhere near a cantina, so you won't be earning XP
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
/ui action defaultButton; /pause 1;
lol, sorry, not at all constructive, but a pleasant thought non-the-less 
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