Entertainer Archive
Thread: Are we a thorn in the side of the galaxy?
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SlickRiptide
Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:14 am
#1
As I've mentioned in another post, I've re-visited SWG after a long absence. After two days of wandering the galaxy, I'm discouraged about the entertainment field and our place in the greater scheme of things.
On my home planet of Talus, the cities are deserted. Even the capitol city of Dearic was empty. During a few hours session of wandering and shopping, I found no-one to play for at any cantina.
Talus was always a "small-town" planet, though it seems to be a true backwater now. I hiked out to Dantooine, which is inexplicably populated densely. Whatever the reason for it, the end result was much like Talus. Every player cantina but one was empty, with no players on the HUD anywhere. The one populated cantina was being serviced by a macro-bot. A master musician and a master dancer, no less. The handful of people coming in and out weren't interested in music or conversation. They came in, got their healing from the bots, and left. After twenty minutes of zero interaction, I did likewise.
At the mining outpost, the situation was worse. There were a lot of people in the outpost proper, though it seemed that half of the players were themselves simply AFK macro-barkers. The cantina was being held down by four AFK entertainers, two of them with master titles up that were barking "Group me, I autojoin, tip what you like" every 45 seconds. With the patrons chuckling gleefully about "free mind buffs", I didn't even bother pulling out an instrument. Seeing the state of the game was too discouraging.
Eventually, I ended up in Tyrena on Corellia, which cantina was predictably empty of both patrons and performers except for a doctor who was healing his own mind with a slitherhorn.
I'm a master musician/master entertainer and while I'm out of practice, I flatter myself that I can still put on a decent show. What does it say about the game when players PREFER to use a bot over a live entertainer? What does it say when non-entertainers freely complain about how the loss of looping macros will rob them of their bots?
There was a time, in the beginning, when people came to be entertained as well as healed. If the current game has devalued entertainers to being nothing more than buff dispensers, then I have wonder if we really should even have a place at all. If the devs introduced a mind-healing stimpack and a mind-buff food/drink, I'd have to wonder if anyone would ever bother visiting an entertainer at all?
If players only patronize us because they're forced to, what value are we really bringing to the table?
These aren't new questions, but the game I've observed over the last couple of days has me wondering if they aren't a lot more relevant than they used to be.
Lorelai_Seabreeze
Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:54 am
#2
HMM former correspondant without his blue glowy.
As a Master Dancer from the start not much has changed with the exception of afk buffbots.Players have always dis-respected us because they were forced into seeing us to get rid of BF/mind wounds.Lots of complaining in the early days about it surfaced on the forums.
Many said the problem with the classes being dis-respected was the easy of leveling with afk-macros.Once those are gone that argument will no longer have merit.It wall fall back to they dont want to be forced into seeing us to get healed.
2 Issues with 1 getting fixed soon.
The other is a difficult issue because it deals with players who dont feel the need to take time out to get healed.
As a Master Dancer from the start not much has changed with the exception of afk buffbots.Players have always dis-respected us because they were forced into seeing us to get rid of BF/mind wounds.Lots of complaining in the early days about it surfaced on the forums.
Many said the problem with the classes being dis-respected was the easy of leveling with afk-macros.Once those are gone that argument will no longer have merit.It wall fall back to they dont want to be forced into seeing us to get healed.
2 Issues with 1 getting fixed soon.
The other is a difficult issue because it deals with players who dont feel the need to take time out to get healed.
Warryyr
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:04 am
#3
Short answer, no - with an if. Long answer, yes - with a but.
In all seriousness, though - the Entertainer's role has been diminished severely by the lack of action from the Devs regarding this AFK nonsense.
I agree, it's both disturbing and alarming that people has come to accept these mockery of Entertainers as a "necessity" and they somehow feel entitled to them. 100% AFK (supposedly) is something that shouldn't be allowed in this game. But, the Devs have done two things to resolve this - jack and **edit** and Jack just left town. They talk out of their rears about wanting to do something about this, announce recursive macros will go away, and then fall silent again.
This situation has pretty much culminated into what you've experienced coming back froma break. The true Entertainers stick to their player city cantinas, performing for friends, because the buffbots are way too annoying to deal with after an hour in the cantina. It's also VERY discouraging to have people ignore you as a live Entertainer, and just head straight for the bot.
We've been **edit** on and forgotten about by the Devs, when we needed them the most.
I am very much of the opinion that our professions are on the brink of being obsolete. Hell, we could already be obsolete.
The folks who do play live, at the keyboard, and actually entertain are the now very hard to find. That is, unless you're friends with them and you maintain close contact.
Tiggs, Thunderheart, anyone on the Dev Team, anyone that actually cares that we're dying off left and right and thatour professions are now mocked by macroing, selfish, rude buffbots- read this, and see how pathetic our professions have become. We need your help desperately. I know you guys want the money from the alt accounts, but do what's right - the alts will NOT go away if you fix the buffbot issue. The alts will still be useful to the owners. They just won't be able to macro all day long and destroy our gameplay experience.
Help us, Dev Team - you're our only hope.
Warryyr
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:09 am
#4
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
HMM former correspondant without his blue glowy.
As a Master Dancer from the start not much has changed with the exception of afk buffbots.Players have always dis-respected us because they were forced into seeing us to get rid of BF/mind wounds.Lots of complaining in the early days about it surfaced on the forums.
Many said the problem with the classes being dis-respected was the easy of leveling with afk-macros.Once those are gone that argument will no longer have merit.It wall fall back to they dont want to be forced into seeing us to get healed.
2 Issues with 1 getting fixed soon.
The other is a difficult issue because it deals with players who dont feel the need to take time out to get healed.
I seriously doubt they'll magically do something beneficial for us in any timely manner.
We're Entertainers, for God's sake. Our quests have been on TC for MONTHS and we STILL haven't had the new dance/song/instrument implemented to test them.
We will get NOTHING in the DISTANT future. We need some action from the Devs NOW. Our problem is that we sit and around and wait, and wait, and wait. Nothing will happen this way. And I feel something NEEDS to happen, or we're in some serious trouble by the time everyone gets their precious X-wing, B-wing, Z-wing or whatever. Anything "getting fixed soon" for us will happen mid to late 2005, I guarantee it.
Are we all prepared to endure this for another year? Because things will be HOPELESS for us by then, I truly believe that.
But, what the hell do I know. I just play this game.
Reachwind
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:37 am
#5
Come play on Bria. There are enough of us at the keys putting on a show and generating an audience that you'll find some of the old fun.
It's not a fix, but at least it's a taste of the old life.
Reachwind
Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:17 pm
#6
During the live event this weekend on Bria a small group of us at the key types set up shop in the Bestine cantina 5m from a 24/7 buff bot (Mishacal) and not only made money and had fun but also drew crowds of actual players and even received genuine approval.
As for which cantinas are lively... It depends on the time of day and who is online. Just drop into the /ent channel and ask. Those of us that are doing our part to play live and have fun at the keys usually find a cantina and gather there.
Lately it seems like we have been travelling between Theed, Mos Eisley or Bestine more often than not.
Vorpaks
Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:37 pm
#7
Make sure to try Mos Eisley too. New Ents are quickly polluted by the rampant AFK disease - they need positive influences!
I would surely miss Entertainers if they were gone from the game.
I would surely miss Entertainers if they were gone from the game.
SlickRiptide
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:02 pm
#8
*heh* Well, I don't want to come off all "poor me, nobody loves me". There have always been macrotainers. I'm just surprised that anyone would go to the work of leveling a master musician or master dancer and then make them into a droid, and disappointed that many players seem to prefer it that way.
Kyorlana
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:27 pm
#9
Talk about a blast from the past Nice to see an old face once again on the boards as it were.
Sorry to hear what your experience back in the game has been like thus far.
As far as how cantina life used to be... for the moment accept (all be it very reluctantly kicking and screaming) that the buffbots contaminate one of our places of work.
Best thing you can do is get in with a band or troupe on your server and work with them to perform gigs and entertain in player cantinas, hotels, theatres etc.
Focus on the art of being an entertainer and leave the healing aspect to the buffbots
That's my rather biased view right now anyway, don't give up hope yet!
Nice to see an old face once again on the boards as it were.Sorry to hear what your experience back in the game has been like thus far.
As far as how cantina life used to be... for the moment accept (all be it very reluctantly kicking and screaming) that the buffbots contaminate one of our places of work.
Best thing you can do is get in with a band or troupe on your server and work with them to perform gigs and entertain in player cantinas, hotels, theatres etc.
Focus on the art of being an entertainer and leave the healing aspect to the buffbots
That's my rather biased view right now anyway, don't give up hope yet!
SlickRiptide
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:07 am
#10
Sadly, I AM on Bria. That's one reason why it seems so disappointing. Where are the lively cantinas that used to exist? Where is FatalX and the other entertainer PA's that used to go cantina to cantina putting on shows? If the state of the profession on the non-Bria, non-Kettenmoor servers is even worse than this, as people seem to say, then I can't see much future in being an entertainer.
Is it really enough that there are a handful of enclaves where the ATK entertainers hold back the darkeness (not to put too melodramatic a point on it)? A year ago I was traveling the galaxy and finding a use for my talents even in remote places like Keren, Anchorheadand Duaba-Gherful (or however the heck you spell that). If the only people who care about your talents are your friends and guild-mates, if the general populace would just as soon be serviced by adroid,doesn't that say that the profession is ultimately a failure?
I just wonder if anyone would miss us if we were gone. If not, maybe the devs made a mistake and we shouldn't be a profession at all. Maybe entertainment is something that should be a "tradeskill" that anyone can perform for their own amusement instead of making it a healing profession that the rest of the players resent.
Maybe things will look different after a week. I'll probably attend Edso's band contest and see if making some connections with other entertainers improves things at all. I have to say, that if the last couple of days are really representative of the state of the game that I'm going to end up handing my gear over to my kid's character and letting them go ahead and delete my ME when it hits the six month purge mark.
Aleyo
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:24 am
#11
Without addressing the topic of the state of entertainers, I'd like to make a point about city emptiness.
I don't think that city emptiness has to do with the state of the entertainer, but rather with the tendency of people to congregate around one place that offers convenience in all respects.
If a player is off in the wilderness somewhere, and he then decides he's done with his hunting, he'll more than likely want to do several things (I know I always have a 'to do' list of sorts in my head of things I need to eventually do). These can involve getting healed up, buying a new weapon, buying some resources for crafting, getting trained in a skill. Somehow or another, Coronet became a place where lots of people came. The more people there are in a city, the more people know that there are a lot of people in that city, and the more likely someone is to go to that city when he has multiple needs because the odds of meeting each of those needs is increased. It used to be that coronet would offer a slight increase in the odds, but as more and more people play those odds, it became a much less balanced system, where cities like Keren, Dearic, Moenia become more and more empty, and Coronet becomes increasingly saturated with players. Somehow or another, Theed became the secondary location to find people, at least on my server as an escape from the lag of Coronet (I've heard other servers have pretty drastic lag in Theed nowadays).
Anyways, I think that's what it boils down to. The more people leave one place to go to another, the more will follow. As an entertainer, if your customers and fellow entertainers drop off one by one to go somewhere else, you'll find yourself bored.
(And I think Dantooine probably became very populated during the holo-craze, as it was the most popular place to find those blasted holocrons).
I don't think that city emptiness has to do with the state of the entertainer, but rather with the tendency of people to congregate around one place that offers convenience in all respects.
If a player is off in the wilderness somewhere, and he then decides he's done with his hunting, he'll more than likely want to do several things (I know I always have a 'to do' list of sorts in my head of things I need to eventually do). These can involve getting healed up, buying a new weapon, buying some resources for crafting, getting trained in a skill. Somehow or another, Coronet became a place where lots of people came. The more people there are in a city, the more people know that there are a lot of people in that city, and the more likely someone is to go to that city when he has multiple needs because the odds of meeting each of those needs is increased. It used to be that coronet would offer a slight increase in the odds, but as more and more people play those odds, it became a much less balanced system, where cities like Keren, Dearic, Moenia become more and more empty, and Coronet becomes increasingly saturated with players. Somehow or another, Theed became the secondary location to find people, at least on my server as an escape from the lag of Coronet (I've heard other servers have pretty drastic lag in Theed nowadays).
Anyways, I think that's what it boils down to. The more people leave one place to go to another, the more will follow. As an entertainer, if your customers and fellow entertainers drop off one by one to go somewhere else, you'll find yourself bored.
(And I think Dantooine probably became very populated during the holo-craze, as it was the most popular place to find those blasted holocrons).
Lorelai_Seabreeze
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:27 am
#12
The reason it's Coronet is because its the center of the known galaxy.1 ticket from all the major hunting grounds.
Ravanne_Esi
Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:56 am
#13
I think it says alot about this game when the place that has been the most fun to entertain in, the place where we've gotten the most tips and comments on how how great a job we are doing is the lobby of the Theed Starport. We can't heal or buff there, all we can do is entertain but many players stop and listen and chat with us, surprised that entertainers can do something outside of the cantinas at all. We've had people ask us to play some of the higher level music since most have never heard an entire coordinated band play any of them since the major city cantinas are full of grinders all playing the lowest common denominator song. We don't need to heal or buff to be wanted, people want to be entertained, we can do that.
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