Entertainer Archive
Thread: A non-entertainers ideas to stop afk leveling.
I've not read the boards here much, so please excuse me if I'm just
repeating things already said. I had a couple ideas to stop people from
afk entertaining. I'm not an entertainer myself but my wife is so sorry if I
don't have all the terminology right.
My first idea (and what I feel is the most important) is to reduce to
amount of dancing xps needed to advance. I think the current requirement has
been set figuring people would be afk macroing. If you've been dancing for
three nights and have not gotten enough xps to get a new dance, then there's
something wrong. Many people who afk dance just don't want to wait a couple
months of playing to get to interesting songs/dances. If you kept the
entertainer healing xps the same then you can still make it so people have
to dance for others to get to an elite profession or master.
The main reason people afk entertain is because they can. If you let any
profession do this for xps they will. There has to be things put in place
that require user interaction in order to get the xps. Here's and idea for
healing xps. When someone clicks on you and then selects /listen you should
get a pop up that says "-DEATHSPAM- starts to watch you" and you can click
deny service or entertain. If you don't click it, then he has to try another
entertainer.
For dancing xps, they can do something similar to what they did with afk
resource gathering. I know dancers hate to fall over so you can have it so
that you only fall over if you don't reply to a random popup. When you fall
over you will have to /startdance again. I know people would get around this
by just shortening the macro so they /startdance more often, but they can
make it so you can't /startdance while there is a popup window open.
Another more controversial idea would be to allow battle of the bands or
dance-offs. I know I've seen this in real dance clubs, and some of the women
can be downright mean. If you go into a cantina and determine that the other
performers are afk, you can clear them from the dancefloor by challenge them
to a dance-off. It could be as easy to avoid as letting them click the popup
to avoid it. A more complex way would be to make it so that if you can
counter the attackers flourish with the same number flourish they get damage
to their action pool based on your skill. If you don't come back with the
same number flourish then you get the damage. If you get reduced to no
action you're forced to sitting or knocked down. A popup can ask them if
they want to get back up, so they will be laid out till they get back at the
keyboard. This would also put more skill into the professions because you
would need to recognize the flourishes in order to counter. If you go
against an afk dancer you would always win the dance-off even if they were a
master. If the master was not afk, they should be able to take down any
novice that is foolish enough to challenge them.
I hope I'm not just thinking of things that have already been discussed,
but if not maybe these would be a couple more ideas to toss at the devs.
Thanks, Merrilin, that's probably the best thought-out post about AFK I've seen from a non-entertainer. The only thing I don't personally agree with is reducing the xp requirement, because I think that a performer can get the song/dance skills in a decent progression already. IMO, reducing the xp too much would remove most of the sense of accomplishment when the skill is reached. Most of your ideas have come up (pop-ups similar to sampling, targeting healing), but it's always neat to see new perspectives on them.
Oh, and as for the "battle of the bands" and "dance off" ideas: love them. It'd even be fun for at-keyboard performers, I've got "Dueling banjos" going through my head right now.
AlthoughI'm feeling slightly ashamed of myself for thinking: "Hmm, once they lose their action, how about they get incapped, and you get the choice to deathblow them. Kind of hard to get heal xp macroing in the basement of the cloning center." I'm a mean, mean man.
The main reason people afk entertain is because they can. If you let any
profession do this for xps they will. There has to be things put in place
that require user interaction in order to get the xps. Here's and idea for
healing xps. When someone clicks on you and then selects /listen you should
get a pop up that says "-DEATHSPAM- starts to watch you" and you can click
deny service or entertain. If you don't click it, then he has to try another
entertainer.
Actually, I've already spoken out against this. The biggest reason I am opposed to this method is that the entertainer will be swamped with pop-up boxes. This gets in the way of socializing, flourishing, and general attention in the cantina. I don't mind an infrequent box like surveying, but a box for every time someone watches/listens would drive some of the serious entertainers out because they cannot focus on their entertaining.
It makes sense, but I think it would take away from the fun of entertaining.
For dancing xps, they can do something similar to what they did with afk
resource gathering. I know dancers hate to fall over so you can have it so
that you only fall over if you don't reply to a random popup. When you fall
over you will have to /startdance again. I know people would get around this
by just shortening the macro so they /startdance more often, but they can
make it so you can't /startdance while there is a popup window open.
Ooh, a whole lot can be fixed if you cannot /startdance during a pop-up window. I like that idea a lot. And if the pop-up window shows up on a random timer (anywhere from 2 minutes [rare] to 15 minutes), then an AFKer would have to plan for this short timer. And that'll mess him up.
Merrilin wrote:My first idea (and what I feel is the most important) is to reduce to
amount of dancing xps needed to advance. I think the current requirement has
been set figuring people would be afk macroing.
I doubt they set it that way on purpose. I don't think level-up requirements should be reduced, unless they also reduced the xp-per-flourish, which would amount to no real change at all.
Personally what I would love to see is XP based on your current LEVEL, rather than your DANCE, which would encourage dancers to dance something other than their "highest" dance. I just dance whatever is appropriate to the music (or perhaps the mood my character is in) but not everyone is going to do that.
In any case I don't think changing the XPs needed to advance will stop macroing. They CAN'T make it so you can master in a week or else people will complain that it is too fast. The only way to keep it a long and involved journey and thus retain the sense of accomplishment at completing that journey is to keep it the way it is.
Merrilin wrote:If you've been dancing for
three nights and have not gotten enough xps to get a new dance, then there's
something wrong.
Three nights?? How many people can level up through the upper pistol levels in three nights? Why should a dancer gain boxes any faster than anyone else?
Merrilin wrote:
When someone clicks on you and then selects /listen you should
get a pop up that says "-DEATHSPAM- starts to watch you" and you can click
deny service or entertain. If you don't click it, then he has to try another
entertainer.
The problem with that is most dancers do not want to be spammed to death with popup windows while they are dancing. If you could set it to auto-accept we wouldn't mind but that would defeat the purpose -- which is to stop AFKing. I'd rather NOT see this implemented, personally.
Merrilin wrote:I know dancers hate to fall over so you can have it so
that you only fall over if you don't reply to a random popup. When you fall
over you will have to /startdance again.
Now this idea, I love! You could easily tell who is AFK by the fact that their toon is falling over! It makes the person who is at-keyboard have a chance to actually, literally out-perform the AFKer, and it makes the AFK'ed chracter look like a clutz. This is a great suggestion. It even makes good in-game sense: a dancer who isn't "paying attention" to her footwork would fall down a lot. And AFKed dancers are not paying attention to their footwork (by definition). You get a gold star for that suggestion. :-) Ravenmist! Pass this one on to the devs!
Merrilin wrote:Another more controversial idea would be to allow battle of the bands or
dance-offs. I know I've seen this in real dance clubs, and some of the women
can be downright mean. If you go into a cantina and determine that the other
performers are afk, you can clear them from the dancefloor by challenge them
to a dance-off. It could be as easy to avoid as letting them click the popup
to avoid it. A more complex way would be to make it so that if you can
counter the attackers flourish with the same number flourish they get damage
to their action pool based on your skill. If you don't come back with the
same number flourish then you get the damage. If you get reduced to no
action you're forced to sitting or knocked down. A popup can ask them if
they want to get back up, so they will be laid out till they get back at the
keyboard. This would also put more skill into the professions because you
would need to recognize the flourishes in order to counter. If you go
against an afk dancer you would always win the dance-off even if they were a
master.
I like this idea too. There are potential problems and it would have to be implemented carefully, but I like the fact that the opposing dancers would need to recognize each other's flourishes visually and be able to punch the right one. You just KNOW half the AFK dancers out there don't really even know their flourishes... So even when they came back to keyboard they would lose.
Some very good suggestions and a well thought out post. Thanks for posting! Come back and see us any time.
C
You definately gave that idea some thought :-) Good one but I agree toomany pop ups would be rather annoying after a while.
But......
I agree something has to be done. One thing that gripes my cookies is an afk Dancer or Musician. It is boring sometimes trying to level I know this, I have sat at my keyboard night after night florishing and florishing only to have someone off in the corner afking for hours on end. I will NOT EVER go afk while dancing unless its a quick run to the little dancers room, or I find a nice quiet secluded place like a house or somewhere people wont be coming in.I realize some of peopledo work outside the home and cannot hold the same hours as others but afk musicians/dancers need to be regulated somehow.
Sometimes I dont mind it in a group because we all end up getting better xps but when I bust my rear to get my next dance level and Susie_sunshine in the corner goes to bed what is she really doing? Leeching xps from the time I put in., I have to hope she at least flourishes during her afk time so I too get the benefit. (Actully had someone grouped with me go afk and do basic footloose over and over with no flourishes whatsoever) Granted its not hard work pushing keys over but it is work after you are there for several hours. Maybe they need to make it so you can only go AFK in a private residence while you are dancing, instead of the cantina's .Also another problem are those that afk while standing in the VERY limited space in the front of the cantina at that. (I hope the Dev's read this and take note that maybe removing the front three tables and groups of chairs in the front might be a good idea. Not many use them anyway and when you have a full group of dancers and musicians its hard to fit everyone in there and have room for the players needing healing as well maybe lighten the graphics load a bit. I seem to lag badly in every cantina when I first come in as does most pc's)
Ive been the only live dancer and had someone come in and watch the dancingcarpet that is afk to avoid a tip, which I DO NOT REQUIRE like some but it is nice to beacknowledged with a gratuity. I try to make small converstationalso. Maybe I am ranting a bit on this and Im sorry but something has to be done. Yes they have the right to go afk but should take a penalty in xps for doing so while the rest of us if grouped with them while they are afk keep getting the regular amount or do it at home. If I cant sit and work at the xps myself I dont feel as gratified as if I had sat here and done the job the way it was meant to be done, person to person, interaction. What is an afk dancer or musician? An impersonal robot. Ok Im done someones going to flame on me Im sure. Flame on you will anyway nice thing about Freedom :-).
I think Merillin has some good ideas. I would love to be mean to those AFK dancers :-))))
The popup boxes are also a good idea if they appear infrequently. But for an AFK robot a single popup box is enough to stop it, so one box every half an hour would be enough. And that popup box should appear on a random location on screen and should not respond to *any* kind of keyboard input. It should *only* respond to a mouse click. Let's not forget about all those third party macro programs, so this popup must be really hard to kill even by those ;-)
I know just how you feel -losing ent healing xp to afk zombies is so incredibly frustrating. The cantina in moenia is often filled with 8-10 afk-ers at once and Ive been the only 'live' dancer in there many many times. Ive even started using a mcro that says Please watch/listen to entertainers who are not afk - if there are any.
The biggest excuse for it that ive heard is that some people say they dont have enough time to play so the macro. But should they get to master faster than everyone else because of that? Someone who plays more should be rewarded and get levels faster - if they dont play as much why do they expect to get master faster than people who do play alot?I play a good bit - 2-3 hours a night and still have been passed so many times by afk-ers who use that excuse. Its not even that i mind being passed the main thing to me is just losing ent healing xp when people come in and listen to them instead and also just the sense of it not being fair. Why am i working my butt off to get master when it seems like everyone else is just coasting through. The only way to compete is to stoop to that level but i wont do that. I have zero respect for a master who i know AFK-ed her way there. At least when i get to master ill know i worked for every point.
Sorry for the rant it just something has got to be done its gone too far!!
(out of character)
As a wakeup call for the developers (if any read this) I would like to add here that I already kinda quit another game because of a quite similar problem.
I once played Asheron's Call, making an alchemist character. It was a weak class, for crafting items that during the first months of the game, were not important. But I enjoyed it very much, even though it was very very hard to play as I had to use gimped combat skills to advance my character. After some time I was pretty much the most advanced alchemist, people recognized me for being kinda unique, respected me for playing a difficult class.
Then the developers added new content that made alchemist items very very important and powerful. Suddenly my alchemist became a true most wanted person on the server helping about every combat type crafting their weapons. It was a blast, with a lot of social interaction, nice tips and what not. Alchemists became as much needed as entertainers in SWG.
But this did not last. Because other people did not like the downtime and hazzle of having to look for an alchemist (doesn't that sound like the hazzle of having to visit the cantina?), every player organisation in game created their alchemist macro machine or used the allegiance system to level the character without real effort.This was not immediately a problem. The problem slowly developed over the coming months, becoming worse and worse. First there were less people asking for my character's services, not such a biggy. But then people simply did not recognize my character as a real character. The macro mule machine label was sticking on my character making me feel like I was walking nude through a shopping center. And finally the macro machines surpassed my own skills, much like the AFK robots become master long before many real entertainers in SWG, rendering my character useless and insignificant. The nice and rewarding social interaction of really played alchemists with other characters in the game gave way to: "hey d00d can u log ur alch mule real quick?"
How many PA leaders do you think already have their entertainer mule running on their second PC? How many players already see you as a cheap macroed up looser class?
Well, I have real confidence that the SWG team will take care of this problem. There are (still) a lot more real entertainers affected by the problem in SWG than there were real alchemists in AC. Still,I post this just as a reminder. In AC those people who did not play real alchemists (99% of players) simply did not understand the problem. They argued that a robot would not hurt anybody because it would not take away anything, it would only make life easier for many players. Almost nobody realized that by adding lots of cheap robots you make the whole class cheap and pointless.
A good way to get folks' attention when they enter the cantina is to /greet or /welcome as you see them enter. Then people are more likely to target you to /watch or /listen.
Ierzai Wywi, Novice Musician, Dearic, Bria