Entertainer Archive
Thread: In defense of the AFK Buffbots
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I_Luv_Wob
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:00 am
#1
First, I am not an ent, nor am I a troll. I'm just trying to offer you another perspective from outside your community. So, when you flame (as many are going to do) remember, I'm giving you the impression that many non-ents have gotten and why buffbotts have sprung up like wild fire.
Second, I'ma doc, so I know about getting bombarded with tells demanding buffs, complaining about strenth of buffs, telling me how I'm overpriced blah blah blah. So I can understand and empathize with you on that regard.
Many people go to buff bots simply because you ents ignore them when they ask (Nicely for the most part, but I've seen some doozies that deserve to be ignored in spatial). I don't know how many times I've been just blown off in /tells or in spatial when I've offered 10 - 20k for a set for both sets of buffs. It gets frustrating and downright aggrivating when you need something and get ignored for 10 - 20 minutes. Its natural that people will just migrate to where they KNOW they'll get serviced.
In addition, many players find that they cannot find ents during off hours (Say three in the morning EST) But the buffbots are always there.Same with some of the out of the way locations
I would perfer an ATK player to buff me (and I've tipped those that did much more than they asked) but when the same people ignore you constantly, you're forced to go to the buff bots.
Just trying to give you all an impression from the outside.
*Sigh* Now I guess its Flame on.....
RaidenIV
Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:33 pm
#2
Some people don't do buffs simply because they get treated like crap when they've done them before. The insurgence of buff bots has lead many to thinking that getting buffs from an entertainer isa free service and the entertainer is usually harassed so some simply refuse to do buffs.This is the case I've seen with a lot of people. But as you said, some entertainers are morons, just like the rest of society, and there's not much you can do about that.
Also, the Ent buffing system is definately not very friendly for both entertainer and client. It requires the client to be listening/watching and doing almost nothing else and there is no indication during the buff that its even taking effect.
If Doc's could buff afk, you'd understand. Most would go to the afk doc buff bot and get his services for no hassle instead of actually having to talk and maybe argue with a real person.
And the Off hours thing is kinda moot, its off hours, why should game mechanics be implemented to make services easier to find relative to the number of people online? I had always thought the point of a MMORPG was that the players make up the population of the world, so there's really no point in using the catering of those who are online during off-peak hours as an excuse for a service to be available 24/7, because the people aren't there 24/7. Should SOE make Doc's able to afk buff to let those who play during off hours get doc buffs at will as well?
fett3041
Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:57 pm
#3
Many of these 'entertainers' that are blowing you off are afk. It is a widely used 'tool' to turn off your auto AFK timer, so you can go AFK and still look like you're playing.
Use your server's Entertainer chat channel to locate healing and buffs throught the galaxy.
If you still can't find a buff, do something within your skill level.
Bronski113
Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:43 pm
#4
Hell, earlier today i was gladly doing music buffs and people still didn't ask me. I had my master musician tag up and only a few came to me.
And many people are cheap and don't want to pay. Its a slap in the face when i spend my time to help someone and i don't get one credit. Its not like i'm asking for a ton of credits.
Daisy-Mae
Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:24 pm
#5
The original poster has a valid point. I prefer Live entertainers & always tip them better than the AFKs. Once I gave a Krayt pistol to a nice Dancer I met in MOP as a tip 
But not everyone in this game is a pleasure to interact with or deserving of Oxygen for that matter.
But not everyone in this game is a pleasure to interact with or deserving of Oxygen for that matter.example #1 A Master Doctor sits down among the other Docs in Coronet starport (has the MD tag on) & pulls out her Med droid. It shouldn't be crazy for anyone to expect her to start Buffing along w/ the others. I send her a /tell asking if she's selling Buffs & get the response 'Only for rich people'.
example #2 I see a Master Smuggler (tag up) & send a /tell asking if they have time for some slices. I get the response 'I no longer do manual labor'. What kind of white-collar crap is that? Gave me a chuckle tho.
If you know either of the above people, don't mention their names, it won't make any difference.
I never get any sass-mouth or smack talk from an AFK. I fully support the removal of AFK macros & can NOT wait for the changes, but until then I'll save myself a headache or 2 & catch a quick Buff from them if they are available & offering Buffs. And there are AFK Buffing Doctors. I'm no good w/ the macros, but it's obviously possible because there is a static spawn (:smileyhappy
of the AFK Doc on Dantooine.
of the AFK Doc on Dantooine.DaisyMae
LyteFoot
Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:24 pm
#6
I just wonder how it would feel if you had all the AFK docs that you have entertainers? Would it bother you if your income was stripped? Even worse the buf bots are so common that people have gotten accustomed to not only using them but without pay. I did buffs this very morning and had a fairly lively business till I got tired of it. Of about 10 people 6 paid. So 4 out of 10 think my time is free and that they are owed buffs.
There is no defense for people who don't play the game but use game mechanics to do things during the hours they aren't present. AFK game activity is harming the game all over the place. I can't even find a spot for a lower level friend to do some ATK NPC shooting because almost every spawn spot is covered by an AFK person. Don't even try to get decent loot from most of the caves, those are camped all the time.
There is no way to balance the game with AFK play. Game engines are geared to certain population peaks, usage patterns, etc. Having people running their avatar while AFK totally destroys those patterns because people are logged in when they should not be. Its a game breaking activity, its just that simple.
There is no defense for people who don't play the game but use game mechanics to do things during the hours they aren't present. AFK game activity is harming the game all over the place. I can't even find a spot for a lower level friend to do some ATK NPC shooting because almost every spawn spot is covered by an AFK person. Don't even try to get decent loot from most of the caves, those are camped all the time.
There is no way to balance the game with AFK play. Game engines are geared to certain population peaks, usage patterns, etc. Having people running their avatar while AFK totally destroys those patterns because people are logged in when they should not be. Its a game breaking activity, its just that simple.
SakeO
Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:12 am
#7
We all have times when we do not feel like performing the duties of one of our professions. Maybe we have just done a bunch of it, we want to train another profession, or are insearch of goods and sevices of our own. For many professions taking one client means a line will form and at some point you are going to have to refuse someone, so the "just a quick one" request needs to be refused. It is also relatively frequent that a customer will not not accept the first (or 2nd,3rd,4th,...) polite declination.
Especially when a service is considered as important as mental buffs are, it is understandable how frustrating it can be to not be able to find someone do give you one, even when you have good money. If you feel you are being ignored, you may first want to ask yourself if you have everr spammed advertisements or used out of game or foul language in spatial. The simple fact is that you may have been ignored for that reason.
The problem here is that the existence of AFK buffers only makes finding an ATK one harder. They reduce the enjoyability of the places where performers would do their work and twistwhat is expectedof buff clients to where they feel they that no respect or payment is deserved in return for their buff.
It can be argued that removing AFK buffers being removed wil cause a problem. The real problem is that it allowed performers fear interaction with customers, some of whichhave become extremely disrespectful and resentful of any performers other than AFK ones.
I also agree with how off peak buffing is more a fault of the player of that character than entertainers not playing then. I have been social with entertainers and rarely have trouble finding a buff, even at off hours. Their are servers that run off-peak that may have been a better choice. The probable truth is that many choose to grind offpeak because they rather play with fewer people online but, whine that their are fewer people to buff them.
If they remove buff-bots, I think you will find that things are not as dire as you predict, unless of course being civil, social and paying for services is something you can't be bothered with.
SakeO
I_Luv_Wob
Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:01 pm
#8
RaidenIV wrote:
Some people don't do buffs simply because they get treated like crap when they've done them before. The insurgence of buff bots has lead many to thinking that getting buffs from an entertainer isa free service and the entertainer is usually harassed so some simply refuse to do buffs.This is the case I've seen with a lot of people. But as you said, some entertainers are morons, just like the rest of society, and there's not much you can do about that.
Also, the Ent buffing system is definately not very friendly for both entertainer and client. It requires the client to be listening/watching and doing almost nothing else and there is no indication during the buff that its even taking effect.
If Doc's could buff afk, you'd understand. Most would go to the afk doc buff bot and get his services for no hassle instead of actually having to talk and maybe argue with a real person.
And the Off hours thing is kinda moot, its off hours, why should game mechanics be implemented to make services easier to find relative to the number of people online? I had always thought the point of a MMORPG was that the players make up the population of the world, so there's really no point in using the catering of those who are online during off-peak hours as an excuse for a service to be available 24/7, because the people aren't there 24/7. Should SOE make Doc's able to afk buff to let those who play during off hours get doc buffs at will as well?
Random points, I'm jumping around, sorry
Docs *can* AFK buff, its really a simple macro (Almost the exact same as the ent one from what I understand, but I haven't seen either). But the main reason you don't see that is docs spend so much on resources to make buff packs that we can't take a risk on not getting paid for the buff (Hell, we pay close to 100 - 450 CPU for good avian meat)
As for playing on non-peak hours, should the game just shut down then? Ever go to Coronet at around 3am? Thats when I make a killing on buffs. Hell, I even LOWER my prices to help out.
As for the interface, if its like the doctor's buff interface (Read that none) I can see the pain that it would be. If you're not using some sort of macro to fire off the enhance packs, its really easy to miss buffs and not notice. Plus in both the Doc and Ent buffs, its boring as hell (But at least we can get a buff done in 2 1/2 minutes, where as an ent buff takes up to 6 minutes from what I've seen) if Sony could do something to make the process more user friendly on both ends, it would help out.
And for the harrassing players bugging you, I can relate, BELIEVE me I can relate. I personally try to answer each person that /tells me, just so they don't feel like they're not important. BUT when they get abusive, I tell them I can't/won't help them But I always answer them. Many ents seem to ignore first. (And yes, now I know about the ability to remove the AFK timer, and the Ent channels... Even though I was told that the ent channel was for ents ONLY when I offered 20k for a buff but thats another story) And besides, don't ents have the ability to deny healing / service? If someone is a jerk, just deny them. And for not paying after the buff, just demand payment BEFORE you start. Its working for us... It might help you folks as well
Tiaga
Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:59 pm
#9
Second, I'm a doc, so I know about getting bombarded with tells demanding buffs, complaining about strenth of buffs, telling me how I'm overpriced blah blah blah. So I can understand and empathize with you on that regard.
The thing is, we aren't bombarded with tells demanding buffs. People just look for a buff-bot. Sometimes if they notice the master tag, they will say "Invite to plz". I can't speak for other entertainers, but when I am not actively dancing or playing music, I never get asked for a buff except from people who know me.
Many people go to buff bots simply because you ents ignore them when they ask (Nicely for the most part, but I've seen some doozies that deserve to be ignored in spatial). I don't know how many times I've been just blown off in /tells or in spatial when I've offered 10 - 20k for a set for both sets of buffs. It gets frustrating and downright aggrivating when you need something and get ignored for 10 - 20 minutes. Its natural that people will just migrate to where they KNOW they'll get serviced.
As has already been pointed out, these people are likely AFK. As long as unattended play is permitted, you'll never know if they are AFK or ignoring you. Isn't that right there enough reason to stop it?
In addition, many players find that they cannot find ents during off hours (Say three in the morning EST) But the buffbots are always there. Same with some of the out of the way locations
On out of the way locations, are you trying to tell me all of those locations have a doc? If not, then you can hardly expect them to have an entertainer as well. If the demand for off hours buffing is high enough, people will fill the role. The thing is, there is never off hours. Somewhere it is always prime time for people to play. I've never seen a time when there wasn't at least one buff capable entertainer in Theed on my server, server up to server down, weekdays and weeknights. Trouble is, right now there isn't really a demand, because buff-bots provide infinite supply.
In review... Because of buffbots, most people don't look for entertainers beyond those with a title up who are actively performing. Because unattended gameplay is permitted, you can't tell if an entertainer is there or not. This one is likely partly responsible for people not bothering to look for entertainers. What's the point in sending a /tell if most the people you try is AFK, flagged or not? Because of those two, there is just no demand, or incentive, for entertainers to provide a buffing service. As a result, most don't learn how. Some don't even know they can. Some know they can, but don't really know how to do it effectively. And they will never learn at this rate, because one bad buff and the person will probably not say anything but just go back to buff-bots because they are "more reliable". So the entertainer never gets any feedback, so they never find out they need to improve their methods.
Now, buff-bots aren't the only reason entertainers don't buff. They are a big reason, but far from the only one. The other big reason is that entertainer buffs are confusing. You think doctor buffs are bad? Entertainer buffs are worse. First, the buff has to get started. For this the person has to be watching/listening (Henceforth I'll just call it watching to mean either, unless noted otherwise). Sometimes they think they are, but they aren't. Then they have to either be grouped, or have the entertainer use /setperform. Now, using /setperform with a name (/setperform [name]), the entertainer must get the name spelled exactly right. Any typo and it won't work. And of course, there is no feedback saying it's not working, as the entertainer is told, "You direct your performance at %TT.". That's literally %TT, not the target of the buff. Then the entertainer must flourish enough, and know how long they need to do it for. And of course, if the person being buffed runs off after 2 minutes, they only get a partial buff, and can't be rebuffed until it wears off. And if they stop watching another entertainer during the buffing process, it won't work. Some accounts have meditating and/or powerboost also as a culprit for ruining buffs.
Of course, giving the most effective and fastest buff isn't always very entertaining. At least not without a lot of extra work. Some people don't care, but some do.
The problem with buffs would probably be addressed faster, except that people just end up going to buff-bots, so it's not a problem since buff-bots have more of a routine to them, on both sides.
So you see, as long as you support buff-bots, they will be needed. Get rid of them, and they won't be needed. Kind of zen, in a way.
The thing is, we aren't bombarded with tells demanding buffs. People just look for a buff-bot. Sometimes if they notice the master tag, they will say "Invite to plz". I can't speak for other entertainers, but when I am not actively dancing or playing music, I never get asked for a buff except from people who know me.
Many people go to buff bots simply because you ents ignore them when they ask (Nicely for the most part, but I've seen some doozies that deserve to be ignored in spatial). I don't know how many times I've been just blown off in /tells or in spatial when I've offered 10 - 20k for a set for both sets of buffs. It gets frustrating and downright aggrivating when you need something and get ignored for 10 - 20 minutes. Its natural that people will just migrate to where they KNOW they'll get serviced.
As has already been pointed out, these people are likely AFK. As long as unattended play is permitted, you'll never know if they are AFK or ignoring you. Isn't that right there enough reason to stop it?
In addition, many players find that they cannot find ents during off hours (Say three in the morning EST) But the buffbots are always there. Same with some of the out of the way locations
On out of the way locations, are you trying to tell me all of those locations have a doc? If not, then you can hardly expect them to have an entertainer as well. If the demand for off hours buffing is high enough, people will fill the role. The thing is, there is never off hours. Somewhere it is always prime time for people to play. I've never seen a time when there wasn't at least one buff capable entertainer in Theed on my server, server up to server down, weekdays and weeknights. Trouble is, right now there isn't really a demand, because buff-bots provide infinite supply.
In review... Because of buffbots, most people don't look for entertainers beyond those with a title up who are actively performing. Because unattended gameplay is permitted, you can't tell if an entertainer is there or not. This one is likely partly responsible for people not bothering to look for entertainers. What's the point in sending a /tell if most the people you try is AFK, flagged or not? Because of those two, there is just no demand, or incentive, for entertainers to provide a buffing service. As a result, most don't learn how. Some don't even know they can. Some know they can, but don't really know how to do it effectively. And they will never learn at this rate, because one bad buff and the person will probably not say anything but just go back to buff-bots because they are "more reliable". So the entertainer never gets any feedback, so they never find out they need to improve their methods.
Now, buff-bots aren't the only reason entertainers don't buff. They are a big reason, but far from the only one. The other big reason is that entertainer buffs are confusing. You think doctor buffs are bad? Entertainer buffs are worse. First, the buff has to get started. For this the person has to be watching/listening (Henceforth I'll just call it watching to mean either, unless noted otherwise). Sometimes they think they are, but they aren't. Then they have to either be grouped, or have the entertainer use /setperform. Now, using /setperform with a name (/setperform [name]), the entertainer must get the name spelled exactly right. Any typo and it won't work. And of course, there is no feedback saying it's not working, as the entertainer is told, "You direct your performance at %TT.". That's literally %TT, not the target of the buff. Then the entertainer must flourish enough, and know how long they need to do it for. And of course, if the person being buffed runs off after 2 minutes, they only get a partial buff, and can't be rebuffed until it wears off. And if they stop watching another entertainer during the buffing process, it won't work. Some accounts have meditating and/or powerboost also as a culprit for ruining buffs.
Of course, giving the most effective and fastest buff isn't always very entertaining. At least not without a lot of extra work. Some people don't care, but some do.
The problem with buffs would probably be addressed faster, except that people just end up going to buff-bots, so it's not a problem since buff-bots have more of a routine to them, on both sides.
So you see, as long as you support buff-bots, they will be needed. Get rid of them, and they won't be needed. Kind of zen, in a way.
Dusten79
Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:56 am
#10
RaidenIV said:
"If Doc's could buff afk, you'd understand. Most would go to the afk doc buff bot and get his services for no hassle instead of actually having to talk and maybe argue with a real person."
Im a master doc on Corbantis and id like to say that if IS posible for a Doc to buff AFK, but not to many do it.I might add many docs get treated like dirt too if they are not ready to buff anyone at anytime, and id actualy LIKE to see more doc buff bots becourse then i could play the game the way i want without being flamed for not spending hours just buffing ppl.
Dusten79
Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:20 am
#11
RaidenIV said:
"If Doc's could buff afk, you'd understand. Most would go to the afk doc buff bot and get his services for no hassle instead of actually having to talk and maybe argue with a real person."
Im a master doc on Corbantis and id like to say that if IS posible for a Doc to buff AFK, but not to many do it.I might add many docs get treated like dirt too if they are not ready to buff anyone at anytime, and id actualy LIKE to see more doc buff bots becourse then i could play the game the way i want without being flamed for not spending hours just buffing ppl.
Marzuk147
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:22 am
#12
As a master doc, Id love to see doc buffbots, then people would stop bothering me for buffs. I do not buff because the profit is pretty poor compared to other things I can do. Docs are definately not like entertainers, in that we can not buff a full group of people in 8 minutes, and it costs us resources to buff.
Warryyr
Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:50 am
#13
Marzuk147 wrote:
As a master doc, Id love to see doc buffbots, then people would stop bothering me for buffs. I do not buff because the profit is pretty poor compared to other things I can do. Docs are definately not like entertainers, in that we can not buff a full group of people in 8 minutes, and it costs us resources to buff.
Many Entertainers are in the game solely to entertain. They like the support role, not the combat role or the crafting role. For many, it's their only means of making credits in the game. For you, it's easy to say "i won't buff, i'll make money elsewhere" and then craft, or buff yourself to do some combat.
You may love to see Doc buffbots -because you have another means of income. As the game design exists now, Entertainers have no viable means of any sizable income - except through the tips they get and the money from buffing.
Take away the Entertainer's buffing business, you take away their main way to make a living in-game. Thus, the profession slowly becomes unreliable financially, and bothersome to play.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 10-21-2004 11:51 AM
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