Entertainer Archive
Thread: Question about an ents purpose post pub 20
We can hope, though.
We were never meant to be buff vending machines that worked better while unattended and the fact that we've lost the vision that said otherwise is why the professions are in such a state now.
As an entertainer I have only one "job:" To convince a patron to stay in the cantina.
That opens up so many opportunities for us that a spy/information gathering role is just one of a million ways you could play...though I really don't see how you can be an effective entertainer without gathering information on people, even if you don't use the info in a spy-ish manner. If Bob comes in for an inspiration today and tells me he's going to go get pistol exp, and tomorrow comes in carrying a rifle, I should remember that he had a pistol yesterday and ask what went wrong.
The reason why I liked the new quest so much is I see it trying to bring back some of what we've lost in the past year and half or so and it gives me hope that things are on track (even if there are scary things like removing BF happening).
Doriana wrote:
That's not exactly a "new" thing, but more of a return to the basic premises of entertaining.
We were never meant to be buff vending machines that worked better while unattended and the fact that we've lost the vision that said otherwise is why the professions are in such a state now.
As an entertainer I have only one "job:" To convince a patron to stay in the cantina.
That opens up so many opportunities for us that a spy/information gathering role is just one of a million ways you could play...though I really don't see how you can be an effective entertainer without gathering information on people, even if you don't use the info in a spy-ish manner. If Bob comes in for an inspiration today and tells me he's going to go get pistol exp, and tomorrow comes in carrying a rifle, I should remember that he had a pistol yesterday and ask what went wrong.
The reason why I liked the new quest so much is I see it trying to bring back some of what we've lost in the past year and half or so and it gives me hope that things are on track (even if there are scary things like removing BF happening).
You're not going to convince them to even come to the cantinas if they don't have to, more less stay in the cantina. The vast majority of the combat professions, who are solely combat once BF is removed will not come back into the cantinas. Which means you will have no income since there is nothing of worth replacing it.
There must be a connection for all professions to have some dependency on other professions. Without it a player economy cannot succeed.......
By removing BF they are removing the only connection we have to the vast majority of the player base. A few may still stop by for RPing, but I wouldn't expect much in tips. Its sad they give us a covercharge command, then remove the very service its meant to pay for. Inspiration buffs are useless to full template people, and quite frankly we don't have enough new people coming in to make them a money maker.
BF should not be removed without some other ability to replace it that is equally valuable to all the combat professions. Doing so will only hamstring all the entertainers/musicians/dancers. I have no faith that anything will be added soon, it took them 2 years to 'fix' slicing, but then they only turned it into a loot system.....cutting out AS, WS, and Smuggler's who crafted items to do slicing with.
We all know it will be months and possibly never that they will actually fix the entertainers if they do this without making some ernstwhile addition. When the CU came out we were told the inspiration buffs were replacing mind wound healing. We were told some future ability would be added to replace mind buffing....yet nothing has been added. Removal of BF will remove the only link we have to the combat professions, they essentially will not need us anymore. It is a very bad move by SOE, but then they have a history of them.
Of course I can.
Would it be the most efficient use of my game time, and would I be a "smart" player if I never ordered custom weapons or took them to be sliced?
Of course it wouldn't.
The only professions that have forced interaction that directly impairs game play if not fixed are ents and medics/docs. Both of these professions pre-CU were in such a degraded state thanks to AFK and bots that they were a joke and in the case of entertaining still are complete jokes.
Armorsmiths, chefs, IDs, smugglers, weaponsmiths.. All the optional interaction people, the people who you get a benefit from interacting with but aren't refused the ability to play if you don't... they're not doing so bad though, are they? Guilds don't talk about buying a communal weaponsmith account like they buy a communal buffbot account, and I really haven't encountered anyone who goes out and buys another copy of the game so they can have their own on demand weaponsmith, armorsmith, smuggler, tailor and chef (I admit there are probably a few out there though). Only the professions that were driven through forced negative reinforcement had these problems and both ent and doc were completely overrun by the buff craze.
I don't particularly hate the battle fatigue model, honestly, and if were up to me I wouldn't have requested it being changed even though I was very much for the removal of mind buffing. But I honestly don't see it as the end of the universe because they're changing us to the way crafters work instead of something that's been shown to not work in both the cases it was used.
We've missed the boat on BF removal anyway. It was really taken out in the CU and just left in the display to keep people calm. Right now you only get BF if you screw up and die uncloned or get blown up in space. Is that really what we want to be associated with? "Have to go to the cantina, I screwed up again"
BF should be increased, I do feel it is too little now. But at the same time its our only real connection to most other players.
The problem you're not seeing is that with the removal of BF, we will have no services that anyone will want. Tailors make clothes which make you look nice if you chose too. Weaponsmiths make weapons which help you fight, Armorsmith make armor that helps to protect you if you want. Image Designers can give you a makeover. What will we be able to give any players after BF is removed? Inspiration buffs aren't needed by I'd say over half the game population because they are already masters. So we will be left with nothing.
I've already seen posts by pure combat types, some very honest posting. They say they will not be in the cantinas once BF is removed and they will not be tipping. Why, because they will have no reason to.
Doriana wrote:
The only professions that have forced interaction that directly impairs game play if not fixed are ents and medics/docs. Both of these professions pre-CU were in such a degraded state thanks to AFK and bots that they were a joke and in the case of entertaining still are complete jokes.
That's true but it's a red herring, really. The answer to AFK degrading the medical and entertainment professions wasn't to take wounds and BF and healing and such out of the game -- it was to take *AFK* out of the game. The problem all along is that the devs insist on treating the symptom (player bitterness and resentment of the healers) rather than the cause (AFK botting).
Doriana wrote:
Only the professions that were driven through forced negative reinforcement had these problems and both ent and doc were completely overrun by the buff craze.
Here again though... this was enabled/allowed by the ability to AFK macro. Allowing AFK levelling of any sort is a very bad idea for any online game. Until the devs realize this and actually put a stop to it, they will never, ever solve this problem. Anything we do that is of use will be botted. And making it so we have no use, is just as bad. But if they don't take AFK out of the game, the only two options are very useful/botted, or not botted/not useful. There is no possible middle ground until they get rid of AFKing.
C
But I think forcing people to *need* something is a good part of why they wanted to bot in the first place. Or at least, why the player community as a whole accepted and applauded it.
As to why people did the botting in the first place, I will quote a game designer friend of mine, "You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." (Mice in a maze analogy.) That is to say, if you make a quick/easy way to level and a hard/challenging way, 99% of players will do the quick/easy thing.
The devs should know this about the players (it's "gamer 101") and make sure that they do not put one super-easy route to the goal and one hard route. They have left the super-easy route in for 2 years (and it is going to be in there after pub 20 also), so they should not be surprised at the AFKing.
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MeciniaLua wrote:BF should be increased, I do feel it is too little now. But at the same time its our only real connection to most other players.
The problem you're not seeing is that with the removal of BF, we will have no services that anyone will want. Tailors make clothes which make you look nice if you chose too. Weaponsmiths make weapons which help you fight, Armorsmith make armor that helps to protect you if you want. Image Designers can give you a makeover. What will we be able to give any players after BF is removed? Inspiration buffs aren't needed by I'd say over half the game population because they are already masters. So we will be left with nothing.
It's that simple: they're taking away the only "product" entertainers possess that has monetary value to combat players (healing BF) and then "thinking about" what to replace it with .... and in the meantime, entertainers sit & spin with no revenue source. I just don't see how such a harebrained idea ever makes it out of a design meeting, but then, I've been asking that question in one form or another for over two years.
Right?
Right??
*sound of crickets chirping*
C
Chessack wrote:
But Kzin, people will pay us for that 10% experience inspiration buff...
Right?
Right??
*sound of crickets chirping*
C
Actually I noticed last night that the grinding group I was in actually stopped grinding to go get (re)inspired.
The thing is, they went to a buffbot in a player city cantina, though.
So it's not that people don't want the inspirations. It's just that every "grinding city" has a buffbot. So we don't see people in NPC cities who need them.
Doriana wrote:
Can I play the game without ever visiting a tailor? Or an ID? Or even speaking to a weaponsmith or armorsmith or a smuggler?
Of course I can.
Would it be the most efficient use of my game time, and would I be a "smart" player if I never ordered custom weapons or took them to be sliced?
One thing to remember however is that all the examples you're giving are elite profession. Entertainer is a base profession which will have it only aspect of player dependancy severed.
Of course it wouldn't.
The only professions that have forced interaction that directly impairs game play if not fixed are ents and medics/docs. Both of these professions pre-CU were in such a degraded state thanks to AFK and bots that they were a joke and in the case of entertaining still are complete jokes.
Armorsmiths, chefs, IDs, smugglers, weaponsmiths.. All the optional interaction people, the people who you get a benefit from interacting with but aren't refused the ability to play if you don't... they're not doing so bad though, are they? Guilds don't talk about buying a communal weaponsmith account like they buy a communal buffbot account, and I really haven't encountered anyone who goes out and buys another copy of the game so they can have their own on demand weaponsmith, armorsmith, smuggler, tailor and chef (I admit there are probably a few out there though). Only the professions that were driven through forced negative reinforcement had these problems and both ent and doc were completely overrun by the buff craze.
Oddly enough . . . alot of people purchase alt accounts for crafting purposes . . . and many a city or guild will have at least 1 dedicated crafter that the guild/city helps pay for.
I don't particularly hate the battle fatigue model, honestly, and if were up to me I wouldn't have requested it being changed even though I was very much for the removal of mind buffing. But I honestly don't see it as the end of the universe because they're changing us to the way crafters work instead of something that's been shown to not work in both the cases it was used.
We've missed the boat on BF removal anyway. It was really taken out in the CU and just left in the display to keep people calm. Right now you only get BF if you screw up and die uncloned or get blown up in space. Is that really what we want to be associated with? "Have to go to the cantina, I screwed up again"
