Entertainer Archive

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Warryyr wrote:

This post was started in the beginning of November 2004?

It's almost FRIGGIN MAY.

That is so pathetic. What a joke.

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Message Edited by LeBob on 03-23-2005 07:33 AM

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Crizis wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

This post was started in the beginning of November 2004?

It's almost FRIGGIN MAY.

That is so pathetic. What a joke.

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http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=15236

The joke is the Top 5 stickied on these forums. Nobody is presenting how to improve the game for entertainers, everyone just whines about macros, like them being gone is going to solve anything around content and enjoyment. Read the above. Don't expect SOE to solve the problems, they're not the entertainers, we are, and I don't see ANY ideas about how to make it better.

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• "Issue 1"


• "Issue 2"


• "Issue 3"


• "Issue 4"


• "Issue 5"

However, this is off topic for this thread, and I will not respond to it any further in this thread.

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LeBob wrote:

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Crizis wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

This post was started in the beginning of November 2004?

It's almost FRIGGIN MAY.

That is so pathetic. What a joke.

---

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=15236

The joke is the Top 5 stickied on these forums. Nobody is presenting how to improve the game for entertainers, everyone just whines about macros, like them being gone is going to solve anything around content and enjoyment. Read the above. Don't expect SOE to solve the problems, they're not the entertainers, we are, and I don't see ANY ideas about how to make it better.

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So, to reply more substantively, the Entertainer top issues are in no way a joke. They are exactly what the development team has asked of me and my correspondent peers. There is no question, currently, that unattended gameplay is the number one problem in the Entertainer professions. The correspondents are not here to design the game for the developers. We are here to gather information from the community, and present it to the developers. There was a whole thead (dev sponsored) of ideas in the In Concept forum a year or so ago full of ideas. There were no developer replies, and the thread finally was deleted, so I can understand why some of the community may be a little hesitant to work out elaborate content proposals. However, this is not even the real issue. The fact is that I personally know that the developers have read and are aware of the kinds of content we want. The top issues list is supposed to be a prioritization, not a book... actually all we are supposed to have is this:

• "Issue 1"


• "Issue 2"


• "Issue 3"


• "Issue 4"


• "Issue 5"

However, this is off topic for this thread, and I will not respond to it any further in this thread.

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I appreciate the soap box "sternness," and I'm properly chastised. However:

• Macros are not the number one anything, they are an annoyance.


• The real issue is the lack of depth and content for thenewMMORPG phenomenon of social professions. The devs launched a blank template, underdeveloped, and havenot been ableto circle around and develop it more. The cantinas are nothopping, cause there's nothing to do in them, no dance floors, no gaming, nofunctional bars (with enhancements in drinks, for example), no flashy lighting, no dancecages, noareas for different activities (such as just mentioned), nada, nothing to compel people to liven up and socialize in a cantina setting. No content. If these things were addressed, macros would be a non-issue, as they are but a symptom


• The other issue is the nature of the grind, that peepsare driven to avoidance by afk grinding this mess, instead of beingpresented with quests,time-elements, and a lively social environment that's fun toapprentice the trades in,rather than 100% XP grinding in a room of people doing nothing and nothing going on to enjoy

As for a correspondents role, reading one of the latest posts for new ones, I got a sense that correspondents are to, coordinate, coalesce, and advocate community input, not do all the thinking themselves, but be the conduit. I never said otherwise. Well, looking at that top 5, I don't see the representation of all the ideas in the forums coalesced, nor prioritized, nor presented, nor advocated. I see a quick, "give us content," and "fix some bugs," but nothing that gels the community input into an actual plan for bringing life to the entertainers universe and the cantina. Macros will not bring us that, not even close.

This is constructive, and it needs to be said. Peeps are way off path. Being indignant and defensive will not help this community. As someone who watches our community get ripped up week after week, and players verbally attacking players over this macro business, I'm tired of it. It's not the issue. Get on target, address the content. Blow open the entertainers universe and give them content.

Message Edited by Crizis on 03-23-2005 07:55 AM

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Warryyr wrote:

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Crizis wrote:

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LeBob wrote:

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Crizis wrote:

---

Warryyr wrote:

This post was started in the beginning of November 2004?

It's almost FRIGGIN MAY.

That is so pathetic. What a joke.

---

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=15236

The joke is the Top 5 stickied on these forums. Nobody is presenting how to improve the game for entertainers, everyone just whines about macros, like them being gone is going to solve anything around content and enjoyment. Read the above. Don't expect SOE to solve the problems, they're not the entertainers, we are, and I don't see ANY ideas about how to make it better.

---

So, to reply more substantively, the Entertainer top issues are in no way a joke. They are exactly what the development team has asked of me and my correspondent peers. There is no question, currently, that unattended gameplay is the number one problem in the Entertainer professions. The correspondents are not here to design the game for the developers. We are here to gather information from the community, and present it to the developers. There was a whole thead (dev sponsored) of ideas in the In Concept forum a year or so ago full of ideas. There were no developer replies, and the thread finally was deleted, so I can understand why some of the community may be a little hesitant to work out elaborate content proposals. However, this is not even the real issue. The fact is that I personally know that the developers have read and are aware of the kinds of content we want. The top issues list is supposed to be a prioritization, not a book... actually all we are supposed to have is this:

• "Issue 1"


• "Issue 2"


• "Issue 3"


• "Issue 4"


• "Issue 5"

However, this is off topic for this thread, and I will not respond to it any further in this thread.

---

I appreciate the soap box "sternness," and I'm properly chastised. However:

• Macros are not the number one anything, they are an annoyance.


• The real issue is the lack of depth and content for thenewMMORPG phenomenon of social professions. The devs launched a blank template, underdeveloped, and havenot been ableto circle around and develop it more. The cantinas are nothopping, cause there's nothing to do in them, no dance floors, no gaming, nofunctional bars (with enhancements in drinks, for example), no flashy lighting, no dancecages, noareas for different activities (such as just mentioned), nada, nothing to compel people to liven up and socialize in a cantina setting. No content. If these things were addressed, macros would be a non-issue, as they are but a symptom

Just because this is YOUR #1 issue does not make it so for the entire community. LeBob works hard to gather everyone's input as to their top concerns and issues, tallies them, and the top 5 is created. You may make your case for "content" being the #1 issue in the top 5 thread when LeBob posts it.

• The other issue is the nature of the grind, that peepsare driven to avoidance by afk grinding this mess, instead of beingpresented with quests,time-elements, and a lively social environment that's fun toapprentice the trades in,rather than 100% XP grinding in a room of people doing nothing and nothing going on to enjoy

Nature of the grind? Driven to avoidance by AFK grinding? Lack of a lively social environment?

The grind really isn't bad, if there are actually people PLAYING around you, to talk to and have fun with. No one would be driven to avoidance by AFK grinding if there WAS no AFK grinding possible, and the lack of a lively social environment is a direct result of the AFK plague perpetuating.

As for a correspondents role, reading one of the latest posts for new ones, I got a sense that correspondents are to, coordinate, coalesce, and advocate community input, not do all the thinking themselves, but be the conduit. I never said otherwise. Well, looking at that top 5, I don't see the representation of all the ideas in the forums coalesced, nor prioritized, nor presented, nor advocated. I see a quick, "give us content," and "fix some bugs," but nothing that gels the community input into an actual plan for bringing life to the entertainers universe and the cantina. Macros will not bring us that, not even close.

This is constructive, and it needs to be said. Peeps are way off path. Being indignant and defensive will not help this community. As someone who watches our community get ripped up week after week, and players verbally attacking players over this macro business, I'm tired of it. It's not the issue. Get on target, address the content. Blow open the entertainers universe and give them content.

Entertainers were left with the biggest gap to content enjoyment than all the other types of professions, and they, more than any other type, need the focus and the development effort, equal to the CU, and since they have the largest gap, should have been addressed as a priority. Focus on the mission, not the annoyances.

Message Edited by Crizis on 03-23-2005 07:55 AM

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I don't think anyone's off path. They just might not be on yours. That, however, does not mean they're wrong. It means other people have different priorities than you, which is okay.

I will agree with you that MASSIVE additions of content are required to ensure Entertainers bringing back the public to cantinas to have a good time. These additions of content, however, will be utterly useless and pointless if people walk into a cantina to have fun and see player bots blathering on about tips being appreciated and to heal them if they're low on action, blah blah blah. It makes this game look cheap and exploited to have armies of AFK'ers passing themselves off as Entertainers. That's just how it is. It makes cantinas look bad, and without getting rid of them, any fabulous additions to cantinas will be overshadowed by the annoying people running macros all day and pretending they're playing this game.

Content will do little good without removing AFK. It needs to be a 1-2 punch. Kill the AFK, people will get annoyed and give up botting. People will be more willing to go into NPC cantinas again. Bring in massive content and let the active Entertainers play this game again, and have fun. Then, I think, our professions will be on the right track.

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Message Edited by BleuDestiny on 03-23-2005 09:27 AM

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-Skywise- wrote:

If YOU want to start a "Ways to Enhance EntertainerContent" thread, do so.

I did, it had a dozen good ideas to liven up the cantina and entertainer environment, it got deleted by Garva, who proly didn't stop to read it either.

Please stop trying to divert people from what really bothers them.

Trying to point out the issues, but you don't want to open your mind to other options that require work. Others have to greater and lesser degrees.

Just because you have a AFK Buffbot and are content, doesn't mean that everyone else must fall in line with you. Being content.

Peeps are fighting each other, I'm compassionate,I'm a nice guy, I like to see peeps get along, I get involved. When I'm in a group with peeps I commonly play SWG with, andone starts verbally attacking someone else out of the blue, with no priorprovocation, over thisissue, and this happens frequently, yeah, other players areimpacted, and theresulting fightsand strife even within guilds becomes ... challenging. So heh, being a leader in life, I get involved. Shoot me. I'm a problem-solver in life, quite successful at it, if you bother to listen to whats being said.

As it stands right now, AFK Buffbots and Cantina AFK-zombies kinda ruin it for ATK players.

I think its the utter lack of content and features myself,having some experience in trouble-shooting and differentiating between symptoms and root causes, butOK, lets say for now that macros are a root cause also.

Adress that content please. Beaten by someone not even playing. So yes, entertainers are a little hostile and this is a very touchy subject.

That's no excuse for being a brute, closing your ears, or closing your mind. If you want things to improve, you can't fold tent, and give up, and take it out on others who are trying to improve the situation.

I can almost garentee you AFK'd your entire way through Master Dancer/Musician.

Of course, most do *raise hand*. Go to c-net any day and look at the hoards who are trying anyway possible (in any profession for that matter) to get past the mind-numbing, pointless grind. Rather than begrudge people trying to get around bad content, around bad gaming, how about advocating other solutions to profession mastery? Like quests, time (saying, "sorry, but can't master a profession in a week,) like bartending, like DJ'ing, as solution-oriented examples.

This isn't a profession you care about at all, please stop acting all high and mighty. Like you have a grand vision of what we should be.

I care about it alot, I love the services I provide, I enjoy the performances I used to see of choreographed dancers performing at events (don't see them anymore btw), I love to play the narg at gatherings. I also just generally care that we all get along and get the heart of things so people stop fighting about it ingame, and stopping the hate.

I, for one, will be extremely happy the day Buffbots disappear. Making your second account as useless as entertainer droids.

No, I've explained that our services, depending on the need and circumstances, are Live, and any and all combinations of semi-afk, to log on as needed, to full afk. We're flexible, and we'll get along without recursive macros if need be, all good.

You've been trolling these boards with your posts advocating 'your vision'. That's fine, but from the responses you've gotten so far, don't you think you should quit now? Noone here wants to hear it.

I'll keep trying, its my nature to try to help, to help clarify when peeps like yourself respond brashly, and misquote, and misrepresent, and misinform, cause your mad and sensitive on this issue, and so maybe I have to be patient while folks calm down and can discuss progress.

Stop looking for one person to agree with you here. That's what your doing, more than anything, seeking appoval. Acceptance into a community you care nothing about and have done your part to damage.

I don't need approval, I'm glad to help. I get plenty of validation from within, from wife and kids, and from a successful career, thank you. Given the enormous emotions around these issues, I take the fact that I'm not being flamed by 100's of replies, peeps enraged and ignoring the real content I'm talking about, the support I'm trying to rally for the entertainers to get what they deserve (a LOT MORE CONTENT AND FEATURES), that the lack of that flaming is due to peeps at least giving this the benefit of the doubt and considering its merits.

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Maybe the only way to get to the real issues of content and features, badly needed for the entertainer universe, is to see the recursive macros put to sleep. So, I'll sign up, and maybe then, as we're standing there wondering why we're still not enjoying the entertainer universe, we can start to open our minds to the root issues of content, features and, as someone else said, MASSIVE development that's needed.

/sign

Remove Recursive Macros

Message Edited by Crizis on 03-24-2005 02:59 PM