Entertainer Archive
Thread: Should AFK entertaining really be a top five issue?
Another alternative is piggyback each command with a bit if it is a directly executed command from the keyboard, and non direct commands wouldn't reset the server's idea of the client idle time. A direct command being one that is the result of a keypress which has not yet done a /pause. This should be fairly easy to accomplish. Of course if someone is there but has macros that all start with a /pause... But I doubt anyone does that.
The trouble, I realize now, with trying to tell the difference between commands that are executed from direct keyboard presses and those that were executed by macros is thata third party program that runs in the back ground could easily make it look like the keyboard keys are being pressed even though the aren't...
and that could circumvent most everything suggested here, even the one I suggested.
but I still think the occassional /dump on the client side is a simple way to cut off the average afk-macro player. but if doing that means more players are going to resort to writing their own hacks to trick the client into thinking the keyboard and or moust are being used, then they haven't gained anything.
I wonder if maybe they are allowing afk macro's to run unmolested so easily because they are trying to limit the proliferation of third party hacks that are much harder for them to control.
I once read a very simple suggestion, and I am amazed it has been taking up by fellow entertainers who dislike AFKers. Just take away the argument in the /startmusic, /startdance command. This would force us to choose from a list. (It shouldn't affect our active dancing and music very much, though we might have to rewrite set macros to include a tiny pause to select the appropriate dance or song.)
The only way around this would be to get a quickness buff and come back every two and half hours to restart your character. I think a lot ofAFK people would be driven off by this, and the few that won't be, well... nothing will drive them off. This seems like a simple, easy to implement solution that would eliminate a whole ton of AFKing.
On a side note, I really, really like the idea of a recording. Seems like that might help people who are *still* having money problems.
LalanieRehtael wrote:
I once read a very simple suggestion, and I am amazed it has been taking up by fellow entertainers who dislike AFKers. Just take away the argument in the /startmusic, /startdance command. This would force us to choose from a list. (It shouldn't affect our active dancing and music very much, though we might have to rewrite set macros to include a tiny pause to select the appropriate dance or song.)
The only way around this would be to get a quickness buff and come back every two and half hours to restart your character. I think a lot ofAFK people would be driven off by this, and the few that won't be, well... nothing will drive them off. This seems like a simple, easy to implement solution that would eliminate a whole ton of AFKing.
On a side note, I really, really like the idea of a recording. Seems like that might help people who are *still* having money problems.
That wouldn't accomplish much. It's very easy write a recursive macro that never requires you to rest and in which you would never have stop or restart the dance/music.
They COULD mark that macros in commands sent, but you're right, they probably don't. And implementing it may range anywhere from trivially easy to horribly complex and too risky, depending on how the client and server are coded.
(Incedentally, while it's not a garunteed client, a TinyMUCK variant I used to do coding for has a client that uses an extra protocol over the top of the telnet protocol. It isn't required to connect and play, but if it is present, it allows for extras like edit windows to edit a list of properties (Attributes in MUSH terms IIRC) or code (Including syntax hiliting) or even full GUI interfaces to programs running on the server.)
Malitevv wrote:Anyway, I like the "program bits" suggestion, but that too may only be enforcable client-side because the server probably doesn't know you are executing a macro (my guess).
Well, it's done server-side on a MUSH. Now of course SWG is not a MUSH, but it is designed by the people who did EQ, and I read somewhere that EQ's codebase was heavily derived from DikuMUD... and MUDs and MUSHes are fundamentally very similar (in terms of how the code works at the level of C/C++). My guess is that what works in a MUSH would work in a MUD, what works in a MUD would work in EQ, and what works in EQ would probably work in SWG. It should be a trivial matter for the devs to DL a copy of PennMUSH or even TinyMUSH or TinyMUX, all of which have 'program bits' stuff in there (and I bet Diku does also), and just look at the source code to see how it is done.
I don't think this needs to be done client side, and I bet the server DOES know you are running a macro. Even PennMUSH can figure this out as well. You can execute the "say" command any # of times you want with no charge of code bits to your account, but if you make a command that calls say, using the command will charge your account 1/63rd of a code bit. If the PennMUSH server can tell the difference, I'm guessing the SWG server, which is much more sophisticated, can too.
Maybe I am wrong about it but it is certainly worth taking a look at, IMO. It was flat out 100% impossible for anyone without a special permission flag to run an infinite-loop "macro" in PennMUSH, and that means to me that if you want to prevent such things in SWG, looking at how the Penn server dealt with this issue is a good place to start.
As to the point about, "Well people would just get 3rd party macros to do it for them..." yes, I am sure some people would. But I bet it would get rid of 80-90% of macroing if that was the only way to do it. Right now so many people do it because it is so EASY and it takes no effort to do. If you make it so they have to go through all sorts of contortions just to AFK Macro, I'd expect the majority of them to just shrug and move on to something else. It's not worth their time/effort for the most part.
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I don't know if any of you follow the musician's forum, but I posted some ideas on solutions out there. This thing about limiting the macro repeat sounds pretty good, so you can add it to the possible solution list (the one at the top that lists things that are possible to bypass with enough computer skill.) Then the other suggestion that stood out to me on this forum was the idea of AFK police--this would probably work quite well so long as people didn't abuse the /reportAFKabuse command.
Anyway, here is my post in the musician forum.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=6699&highlight=#M6699
-Lilo
Join me at the Drunken Tusken Cantina in Mos Elsewhere, Tatooine--Bria Galaxy
unfortunately, they are removing /citywarn from the game, according to what I've read, because on the testcenterpeople were abusing it by building cities around static content and the using /citywarn to keep non-guild members away from the static content.
Given that this was the case, I think it is safe to assume that a /reportAFK command would be abused, unfortunately.
I think AFK entertaining would go away if they gave the entertainers the control to toggle on or off battle fatigue or wound healing. Something like the mind buff. Give us meaning! 
Given that this was the case, I think it is safe to assume that a /reportAFK command would be abused, unfortunately.
I don't see how it could be abused. The command will simply summon a CSR to clear the case up. The sender is known, so no DOS attacks on the support. If someone wants to grief me and /reportAFKs me every hour, the only thing that will happen is I get good friends with the CSRs who I will chat with for a minute every hour so they canmake sure I'm not AFK.
SOE forced people into afk grinding by making the fscs primarily profession based, if the path had been more imaginative (quest based or something) we would be out adventuring and not stuck in a cantina doing professions many of us had no intention of playing.
Solve the problem (profession based path) not the symptoms (afk grinding)
Arryuu MCH (for life if possible), Master Dancer(for all of 5 min)
nvoigt wrote:
I don't see how it could be abused. The command will simply summon a CSR to clear the case up. The sender is known, so no DOS attacks on the support. If someone wants to grief me and /reportAFKs me every hour, the only thing that will happen is I get good friends with the CSRs who I will chat with for a minute every hour so they canmake sure I'm not AFK.
You've just provided the argument for why Sony would not want to do that. Every minute a CSR spends doing what you describe is a minutethatCSRisn't doing the things that the CSR is hired to do. I'm sure Sony would be horrified at the idea of instituting a policy which is going to have their CSR's chatting with people every hour about problems that didn't really happen.
In pure man-hour terms that would cost Sony a lot of money.
Borkhal wrote:
SOE forced people into afk grinding by making the fscs primarily profession based, if the path had been more imaginative (quest based or something) we would be out adventuring and not stuck in a cantina doing professions many of us had no intention of playing.
Solve the problem (profession based path) not the symptoms (afk grinding)
Arryuu MCH (for life if possible), Master Dancer(for all of 5 min)
If that were the problem then I'd agree. But the AFK entertainers existed before the holocron craze. (I think I've already said that in this thread.) I don't have a problem with people grinding. If they want to grind, more power to them. You don't have to be AFK to grind though. Solve the problem (People CAN go AFK).