Entertainer Archive
Thread: Should AFK entertaining really be a top five issue?
It isn't necessary for the Server to care about the /ui action call. It can potentially be done client side (just check if it's a toolbarSlot call to another macro function).
Also, just because the macros can be still be used in third party/out of game apparatus, doesn't mean the in-game method should be allowed as well. It's just a measure to keep honest people honest, and also let folks know that "Hey Unattended gameplay isn't something kosher to do".
That said, there are other means to loop macros in game? Hmm, glad I don't know about them to be honest
, hopefully those can be canned with similiar "bar recursion" commands.
It's not a reportable offense.
Well, if it were, we wouldn't have problems now. The DEVs need to make it an reportable offense ( not saying it should be a ban just because someone took a trip to the bathroom, but why not ban someone... lets say for one day per detected hour of unattended gameplay ? Judged not by a machine, but by a human being who was there ? )
If SOE doesn't like unattended gameplay, they need to make it illegal first and foremost. Allowing it on the one hand and expecting to cut it down programatically on the other is doomed to fail horribly with many hours of DEV time wasted and frustrated DEVs and customers.
This isn't the latest cutting edge technology question... if you want to prevent something from happening, get the word out and punish people who disobey... this system has worked for about... lets say... 5000 years minimum.
All SOE has to do is implement the same system any other MMORPG I know has.
Don't change /tip, but add a command like /tipoffer which offers a tip that must be /tipaccepted
Good idea... just don't make the acceptance macroable i.e. NO slash-command.
)
I have been thinking about this (yeah, yeah shock horror!!)...
The trouble is that who wants to be an entertainer? The songs suck, the instruments are boring and the dancing is crappy and mechanical...Image design? rubbish! You can change basics, no one wants basic, everyone wants cool and different, who asks for the parting hair style??
If Entertainer had something to offer back (buffs for example) then people would pay more time to it...I AFK'd dance (in a basement) and I used Muon Gold and myslef to get ID, why? not because I wanted to but because it sucks...No one wants my awful ID and no-one wants to watch a male dancer flaunt his pop idol moves in a cantina!
Make the top 5 ideas things that will make people want to watch their avatar do them. I dont AFK combat because it is interesting, same as I dont AFK engineering (or use a Macro) as it is remotley fun (although again there is a horrid grind to become useful).
My point...remove the grind or the desire to grind and you will remove AFK'ing.
Ideas to make it fun? Probably another thread but here we go...
1) Song templates - the band leader takes a band mission (from a terminal) this opens a template that puts spaces (WP's) on the cantina stage/floor, the entertainers stand in the spaces - until they have filled them up or are ready to start, the band leader starts the routine off and they perform the set piece - gaining musician or dancerXP depending on the role they have in the performance as well as any Entertainer Healing XP they earn....at the end of routine they get paid a share of xxx creds.
2) Songs...I know players can add these, but has anyone without a musical degree been able to add words to the disjointed flourishes? I have mad one song in about 2 weeks of trying, and that is pretty sucky. What if each flourish had an open ended song lyric, that could be linked to the others?
3) Minor Buffs - as Dancer/Musician. Why cant a Master Entertainer buff? they have put almost as much into their class as a Dancer/Musician (who could have only gained two trees of Entertainer).
4) Special effects - as Dancer and Musician.
Olso a 2ndry point...why do I need to be a musician to make a Mandovial?? This seems to be a bit unfair to me as it is a Master Entertainer item.
Anyways I am now a Master Entertainer and got my guitar (why I did it all)...Just looking for AP's now so if you're on SS looking for training send Laine a tell, thanks all.
WhosScrufyLooking wrote:
The trouble is that who wants to be an entertainer? The songs suck, the instruments are boring and the dancing is crappy and mechanical...Image design? rubbish! You can change basics, no one wants basic, everyone wants cool and different, who asks for the parting hair style??
Er... A lot of us dig the songs and and dancing. ID could use some work, I agree, but you sound like someone who is just in the wrong profession.
Waho wrote:
WhosScrufyLooking wrote:
The trouble is that who wants to be an entertainer? The songs suck, the instruments are boring and the dancing is crappy and mechanical...Image design? rubbish! You can change basics, no one wants basic, everyone wants cool and different, who asks for the parting hair style??
Er... A lot of us dig the songs and and dancing. ID could use some work, I agree, but you sound like someone who is just in the wrong profession.
I agree with you I am in the wrong career (I explain that later- but no I am not Jedi grinding)- those people enter a cantina for 20 minutes maybe, I need to listen to that same tune again and again, some musicians hate grouping with New Entertainers as they have to play the starting songs...although when you add the Omni Box or a Traz they sound far better, so Healing XP takes a long time (big thanks to the Master Musicians and Dancers in AH who put up with my Folk tunes last night so I could get Ent Heal 4).
I appreciate that Entertainers have to show a learning curve or everyone would start as a master musician, but could it not offer some variation.
I am not talking about what I dislike about the class, I am offering up reasons other people AFK through the career (although this does include some of my dislikes, you're right about me being in the wrong career, I hated the career at low level - I wanted my character to be able to play the Mandovial and I had to 'grind' all the way to master Entertainer to get it).
I guess I do have major issues with the class system in this game, they say its skill based and classless, but we all know this to be wrong, or there would bea Rodian Forum or a Domestic Arts Forum.- anyways I digress and go off topic
- I suppose I would have made more input if I said - "No I dont think AFK'ing is a top five issue, but the reasons people do it are." (would have rattled on less!! )
WhosScrufyLooking wrote:
- I suppose I would have made more input if I said - "No I dont think AFK'ing is a top five issue, but the reasons people do it are." (would have rattled on less!!
I find this to be an interesting summation of the problem. To be realistic, the biggest reason that people macro through the profession is that they can. However, hologrinders aside, the way to get the rest of the crowd at the keyboard would be to make the whole performance side of things more interesting and interactive.
How about if we approach it from that angle? Instead of "How can we punish AFKer's so that it becomes inefficient to AFK" we can look at "How do we make at-keyboard entertaining so fun and interactive that people would prefer it over AFK play?"
Make the top 5 ideas things that will make people want to watch their avatar do them. I dont AFK combat because it is interesting, same as I dont AFK engineering (or use a Macro) as it is remotley fun (although again there is a horrid grind to become useful)."
Well I agree with parts of this, disagree with parts, and strongly disagree with the last statement in the first paragraph. On the last, I'm in that position and have found plenty of women who are very happy to have an alternative to the fleshwrapped dancers that they usually find. But on the others... I agree, there is more entertainers could have (Though I've found plenty to do as part of a dance troupe... You'd be suprised at some of the things we do) but I still think there needs to be some way to block AFK performances. As long as people can do it, they will. And as long as people do it, others will find out they can and will do it, and we'll be right where we are now. If combat is so interesting, why are there AFK people in the middle of every meatlump spawn around Coronet?
"2) Songs...I know players can add these, but has anyone without a musical degree been able to add words to the disjointed flourishes? I have mad one song in about 2 weeks of trying, and that is pretty sucky. What if each flourish had an open ended song lyric, that could be linked to the others?"
It's not easy sure, but I've whipped a few together. (And I can't listen to Ceremonial or Ballad on the mandoviol without hearing the singing to go with it in my head anymore)
"3) Minor Buffs - as Dancer/Musician. Why cant a Master Entertainer buff? they have put almost as much into their class as a Dancer/Musician (who could have only gained two trees of Entertainer)."
I am master dancer, entertainer and working on musician.... Master entertainer requires a mere fraction of the work of master dancer.. Remember, as a master dancer you've done nearly half the work of master entertainer already just to get novice dancer/musician, then the skill boxes come much slower in the dancer/musician profession. However that aside, I wouldn't be opposed to a small buff that added to the dancer/musician buff.... Say +10 to each. (IE +10% buff, so 110% for someone like me)
"4) Special effects - as Dancer and Musician."
Not a bad idea really for master entertainers...
"Olso a 2ndry point...why do I need to be a musician to make a Mandovial?? This seems to be a bit unfair to me as it is a Master Entertainer item."
Why do I need to be a weaponsmith to make pistols? Why do I need to be an armorsmith to make armor? This game is about interdependance. And if you looked, you need to be a musician to make a fanfar or kloo horn, too.
However.. Looking over your points... What do any of them do to alleviate the desire to AFK? The first point sort of does some, the second kind of... But the rest seem to have nothing to do it. That's the problem.. People have been having trouble thinking of how to make it interesting. However, for me it IS interesting already. I have lots of fun as a dancer/musician. And if you eliminated the AFK performers, I may even go dance in NPC cantinas again.
How about if we approach it from that angle? Instead of "How can we punish AFKer's so that it becomes inefficient to AFK" we can look at "How do we make at-keyboard entertaining so fun and interactive that people would prefer it over AFK play?"
Ahhh see now this is the way I think we should be going at it. Trying to add things/change things that make those of us that do enjoy the classes even ponder the thought of heading afk for an hour or two(or more in some cases). I think I saw someone mention bonuses to Player Cantinas and maybe lessening the healing affect of NPC cantinas. Bonuses for entertainers being at a PC cantina is something I think would help. Combat additions would help as well for a large number of players.(maybe Change "Entertainer" class to be a little more combat leaning ID skills to change peoples lookes to removes Enemy Flags. or on Jedi to remove bounties. Or something like that and so on and so forth...would really give people a reason to become and stay master entertainers.) Things that for those involved in the GCW could give faction points. The ability for them to deny service to a faction or PA. they are at war with. I think the addition of Player Missions would not only add to the overall game but could also be extremly useful for the entertaining classes.
I'm all for SOE making it so that you can't BOT away for 24/7. But I am not willing to take pop-ups that will give me a crappy tiny bit of xp or credits. I'm not willing for them to do a quick fix that ends up screwing macros/aliases(which tons of the useful features of the game are built on). If they an come up with a great and interesting way/idea on how to go about doing it. I'm all for hearing from them about it. Cause I know that they don't want people NOT playing as much as most of us don't want people able to AFK 24/7 and all the way through our classes.
But by all means give me MORE stuff. Instead of nerfing something. Give us stuff that will help give US the tools and ability to cut down on AFKers in our classes and cantinas. We will do a much better job at cutting down on them then any fix the DEV's can toss quickly toss at it.
Echinacea wrote:
Also...Cantinas are boring, ugly, ill-thought-outplaces to be stuck for hours and hours on end. Kinda like Med Centers. How come Medics can heal running around the city, but I can't? Because they have droids. Why aren't there modules for droids that are 'speakers' and allow us to have a small range of Entertainment healing, like Medics? Do not give me some old wheeze about...well, about anything. If Medics can do it, we should be able to, too. Quit trying to keep me barefoot, fleshwrapped and bored in the Cantina. It's obvious that the devs don't have a whole lot of respect for the Entertaining professions. (Red Light District? Not able to do anything but engage in a graphical chatroom?) But they designed the system, and I think it's incumbent upon them to make it a viable profession as compared to others.
We are the Medics of the mind. Treat us like it. Maybe then people will be interested enough to stay at their keyboards.
if this is your thought then you obviously dont like the professon and should leave it now... All the REAL entertainers on each server lvl'd in the cantinas at the keyboard the whole time ... and you know what it was a BLAST! You know why... cause the crowd got into it too... now with all these afk types no one wants to be in a cantina and play... they have BECOME ugly nasty places its not that they were its what afk'rs have made the cantinas and i despise them for it. I know so many masters that have left the proffession cause the cantinas were no longer what they used to be. so you say its boring yet you are a cause of it being boring... maybe u could do something to help repair the proffession instead of blaming the devs.... why was it fine at launch and bad now... cause of afk'rs no other reason
Quit trying to keep me barefoot, fleshwrapped and bored in the Cantina.
If you don't have shoes, that's your fault, I have seen them in game already.
If you don't have a respectable outfit, that's your fault, I have seen them in game already.
If you don't have fun... well, guess what, there is fun without AFKers. With Macrotainers, it's only the logical conclusion that it's boring. Imagine all Mobs would suddenly macro and not shoot back... how much fun would that be ? Try to get into a group of ATK Entertainers and you will see that there is stuff like bandflourishes and syncronized dancing and when having fun, even basic looks good.
I like the idea of the advantages of the player-run cantinas. In one of those, however, can the owner of the building boot out people that they choose? Otherwise, the AFK-macroers could be an issue still, once they pile in and "take over" the place. Meanwhile, a respectable player-run cantina could keep them out by booting the AFKers... and if the player-run cantinas are the only places to actually gain musician and entertainer xp, then the AFKers will all flock to a place one of them made... an AFKer haven.
And where would you rather go to have your Battle Fatigue and Mind Wounds healed... a place full of AFK zombies, or one full of friendly, live entertainers... who can actually entertain?
"Where everybody knows your naaaaame..."
Anyway, I am totally for making it so that higher-level musicians and dancers can only gain xp at player-run cantinas and such, so long as administrators can boot people, if such isn't a feature already in the game. I'm not sure of all of the features of player-owned buildings and such.