Entertainer Archive
Thread: Yet another AFK balancing proposal...
JasonK wrote:So are you saying combatants who AFK maintain their respect because there's risk in it unlike AFK entertaining or they maintain their respect because most combatants don't AFK macro like most entertainers do?
Your ideas get ignored because the devs aren't going to remove looping macros and aren't going to do something that punishes AFKers. They want ideas to encourage and reward ATKers.
No, AFK combatants arn't hated because they are a minority, or at the very least have a minor impact on the ability of others to ATK combat. Entertainers are at an entirely different ratio between AFKers, ATKers, and possible venues.
As for respect, there is no respect for a glorified NPC.
Finally, the dev's arn't programs. They are people. And people can change decisions. I point to the recent changes in the crafting system for proof.
You want numbers, I can't give them to you. I can say that it is virtually impossible to find a cantina that has a number of ATK entertainers. That you claim to enjoy interacting with others seems to indicate that combat professions don't have that problem. To use your own argument, why are you entitled to have companionship when we are not?
How is it a"quantifiable loss of respect" when you can't quantify it?
When did I claim I enjoyed interacting with others or that I was entitled to companionship but you weren't?
Now, you have said that no player is entitled to more or less than any other. Now, the presence of AFK entertainers en masse has made it virtually impossible to get any interaction going as an entertainer. Since you have implied interaction with others (or you are posting to technicalities in an attempt to increase the entertainment value that is your 'logic') I question why you should be entitled to interaction when the game mechanics prevent entertainers from the same.
Jason, you have shown great adherance to the letter and word. Unfortunatly, any writer or speaker will tell you that dictation is no more important than connotation, and that is lost on you.
I pity you, sir. You have demonstrated a grasp on less than half of what you should.
Xyrdre wrote:
2) Anti-AFK argument: AFK entertainers are the Devil, because I work hard at my profession - they don't. Why should they get the same rewards as I do?
I'm anti-AFK and this isn't me at all. I do not mind if other people level with little to no effort in my profession or any other. I know some people do, but that seems snippy and trite to me and frankly I just don't think it should be anybody else's biz what someone is doing with their account or toons.... UNLESS it harms others directly. AFK dancers harm me directly by taking away others need for my service... the only services the class awards me as a game devised method of income: tips. Maybe one day ent missions will provide enough game content and income that it won't matter that cantinas are zombie zones, but for the moment it's absolutely class devastating.
As far as Raph goes, no I think this is exactly what he had planned. In a MUD, social players do not require any game content apparently and levels wouldn't really matter to them. They are there for RP and chatting. So afk would not be an issue for them since levels are just something they do when there aren't people to talk and RP with... or to do while chatting and RPing with others. The whole point behind their playing the game though is the human interaction. They don't need money because they aren't really playing a game, they are using the chat features in a game environment as a source of entertainment.
I don't think MUD gameplay styles translate well into any 3D game... a true social MUD person doesn't need a MMORPG, their style of "gaming" is more what you get in 3D social environments like: TSO, Second Life, or There. In those environments, there are fun little games you can play with your toon, fun little items to get, neat titles to have, whatever, but the main focus is on meeting other people and chatting or roleplaying. It doesn't matter if people go afk in those games, it just means they aren't there for the moment to talk to. There is no problem with AFK shouting because there would be no need.... there is no problem with an AFK person taking away your XP and income because people are using them instead of you. An AFK toon gets and gives less than an ATK, it's almost like they are a non-entity.
I think that is how Raph and anyone else who had a say in the original concept of ents thought of these classes. AFK is totally benign in that kind of environment, these classes were supposed to cater to the people who would be playing a totally social game if they weren't a star wars fan or had friends playing SWG. BF was devised to bring in more interaction for the social players and to force some downtime for the non-socials. Should have been a win/win solution from a game design point of view but it was totally ruined as soon as you put an income need or leveling need into the mix.
Even after the holotainers are gone, there will still be an AFK problem because non-social types have a need for ents as healers and buffers or they want a cantina for their city. The problem will still be there because many of us need to make enough money for our houses that store our clothes (which from conception are the only thing a dancer would need) or pay rent on our cantinas or to pay for our travel expenses. AFK shouters will still most likely damage an RP environment for purely social RP types, though if that went away I really think they would be perfectly happy with the presence of AFKers since they don't care about levels or money.
AFK and AFKers are not a problem other than shouting and causing overcrowding lag for a true pure social player. From a gaming perspective though, they are absolutely class ruining. You can't give a class game content and purpose that is totally player dependent and then allow AFK competition for that game content. If I could get Ent game content that AFKers could not take away from me, they wouldn't bother me at all. That's the part Raph didn't get because in the MUD world, that would be a purely "Achiever" concern and this isn't an achiever class.
Adding more game content is the solution for the classes if AFKing is going to be allowed, having some game content and allowing afking is just messing up the party for everybody.
Hahaha, I don't like elitest fools so you compare me to racists. That'sa good one.
Game mechanics don't stop you from interaction. Go to your very own cantina or one of the 50 or so that are always empty and interact your bleeding heart out. Why should you get to decide what interaction does and does not occur in an NPC cantina? Huh? C'mon, you think you have the right to dictate what people in there should and shouldn't be allowed to do.
Talk about adherence to "the word", have you dropped the whole I said you didn't get "hurt " angle yet? Maybe if I qualify it now with "you don't get hurt by AFKers enough for anybody to give a crap about it" you'll drop it. Funny how you keep trying to bash me for stuff you constantly do. Pot...kettle...black...oops, I said black, I must be racist.
I have a grasp on one thing more than you, reality. Keep on making up things I said.
Oh and by the way, I posted a macro on this forum. Quick, go tell me why it's useless!
Message Edited by Ryyger on 03-17-2004 06:20 PM
Panthu wrote:
Adding more game content is the solution for the classes if AFKing is going to be allowed, having some game content and allowing afking is just messing up the party for everybody.
Hmm, that wasn't really a complete thought... What I meant was more non-player dependent game content should be added. There should be more ways for an Ent to play the game with out other players and less need for other players to be ent dependent. The things we ents can do for other people should be fun or bonuses, not a needed thing so the game can have some forced down time. I understand the need for forced down time (don't like it, but understand it). This burden should not fall on a player class though. It creates a resentment for the class, "oh you're an ent, I have to come into town just so you can have someone to talk to... you people are ruining this game". Hmm, that's a fun thing for a social person to hear, people hate me before I even talk to them. How does that make for good socializing?
Damage in any game is a punishment for the rewards of mob killing: loot, xp, whatever. Healers help you deal with the downtime associated with that punishment by shortening it or helping you skip it entirely. They can also give you access to higher rewards by healing you through a fight you could never do with out them or buffing you so you can fight longer, harder, more. Ents aren't being given hardly any of the positives associated with the heal cycle and all of the negatives. It stinks.
Buffing is cool, but it needs to be done more like the real healing class's buffing ability. BF is a nightmare and will never work as intended now, so it just needs to be dropped or changed to something that makes sense like other types of damage. We should either be real healers that can heal just like the other healers in game just for different stats, but with the same location abilities and dependencies... or we shouldn't be necessary at all for healing and just give us other things to do for people so they will _want_ to be with us.
If the point is to drive people into the NPC cities or even cantinas in particular, make there be some real rewards for the downtime: gambling in all cantinas that are a whole lot more fun and rewarding than the current gambling machines offered in some, other fun little games like raffles or bingo or whatever that would have cool loot rewards like skill tapes and other rare expensive items that help in battle, or even a different kind of punishment like a census that would not be dependent on a class of players.
If the point is getting social people where others are so they can have people to interact with, give us ways to be helpful anywhere and we'll go where the people are on our own. If you make cities fun so that's where people are, we'll be there. If you leave it so that it's easier to meet people hunting like it is now, then give us the ability to earn a way to be helpful in battle and we'll go out to battle with them.
If this was done, AFKing would never be an issue to anyone atall because the current situation just wouldn't exist. The social people could be social without anyone resenting them and the non-social people doing the class for other reasons would no longer have a need.
Let's see, what kind of people cause strife to humans and are offensive and don't like certain people? Racists seem to fit that description better than any other group.
Ryyger wrote:
I question why you bothered going the exceedingly offencive route of 'people like you' which has been the basis for more strife in human history than any other concept.