Entertainer Archive
Thread: So who's still fighting the good fight?
ChaoKuang
Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:58 pm
#14
Recently hit about of depression and nearly deleted my character, but..
..I'm hanging in there, for now. Still trying. The days go by, and it gets harder and harder to hold on, but I've invested nearly year into my guy, so just letting go won't be easy...
Simulation
Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:23 am
#15
I love it, and I'm not giving it up. As I've said before, not all of us are afk and such.
I still think as long as someone is still fighting the good fight and entertaining, the entertainer professions will thrive and live on.
Pristine
Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:29 am
#16
I'm not around as much as Flurry as I used to be, but I'm still dancing and I enjoy it.
MonkeyofDoom
Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:29 am
#17
I started an Entertainer as a complete break from my main (a CH/TKM unnoriginal combo) and I think I probably spend more time playing her than I do my "main."
I just mastered Entertainer but have dropped my dancing skills thanks to too much unwanted attention and am considering continuing up the Musician path instead. So yes, we are still around!
Karywn
Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:27 pm
#18
I just started entertainer recently for the fun of it. (no, really. There was no holocron involved. I've never even seen a holocron :smileywink
I was jamming in Anchorhead last night and quickly discovered that I was the only ATK entertainer in the house! I had a blast bantering back and forth with the customers and the time really seemed to fly by. After a while I decided that my set was over, did a /stopmusic, took a bow, and headed off the stage. On my way off-stage I was stopped by one of the patrons. He tipped me 20k (!) and said "That's the payoff for not being AFK. Spread the word."
I was jamming in Anchorhead last night and quickly discovered that I was the only ATK entertainer in the house! I had a blast bantering back and forth with the customers and the time really seemed to fly by. After a while I decided that my set was over, did a /stopmusic, took a bow, and headed off the stage. On my way off-stage I was stopped by one of the patrons. He tipped me 20k (!) and said "That's the payoff for not being AFK. Spread the word."I know that this is a rare thing, but it really meant a lot to me. I've been debating whether or not to spend a lot of points on becoming a musician, and this has helped convince me that it's worth the effort.
Xyrdre
Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:14 am
#19
Fighting the good fight? Here's one newbie's experience...
(Sorry, this post has gotten a little long... oh well)
I just started SWG a little less than a week ago, and jumped at the chance to play a dancer. I mean, what a great idea to have a 'support' character with integral involovement in the game system, as well as the opportunity to socialize and work on perfecting some really entertaining performances? When I game, I'm an avid role-player, and immediately fell in love with the idea and the possibilities of the entertainment professions.
I randomly chose to start out in Tyrena on Corellia, and did several of the dancer mission gigs at the out of the way hotels in town to earn a few starting credits and get some dancing practice in before I'd let anyone see me. Probably because I'm a natural entertainer at heart... I wasn't about to let anyone watch until I had at least a few decent flourish combos ready to go! So I stumbled along for awhile, figuring out the moves and trying to put together a simple routine (difficult with just Basic!), and had the good luck to run into another dancer who was just starting out. We danced together for hours, doing gig missions and practicing steps and flourishes, and how to control them to work different parts of the stage without stopping.
Finally, the gig missions sent us over to the cantina... and within minutes, I was doing my first show for an audience. Eek! So I danced away, hoping I wouldn't embarrass myself by falling down very much, and chatted away about how his hunting was going, if he liked this step or that better... and so on.
But this first dance set the tone for how I'm pursuing my dancing career. He was so appreciative, so happy that there were dancers willing to dance in an 'out of the way' cantina rather than just Theed or Coronet... and especially that there were still dancers who cared enough to do their best to entertain rather than just run up the XP as quickly as possible. Soon, several more people wandered through, again pleasantly surprised to see a performer working the cantina. I knew then that Tyrena would be my home... there were battle-weary fighters there who needed a good dancer to help ease their troubles and take their minds off the rigors of the battlefield. And they loved my dancing and conversation...
I've danced in the Tyrena cantina ever since. When no one else is there, I still dance constantly for rehearsal, changing dances mid-flourish, whatever I can do to improve my skill at dancing - all completely ATK. I've since learned about macros, but where's the fun in that? For me, the fun is in becoming skilled enough to dance on the fly - able to move where I choose to, perform a flourish for someone right where and when I want to, hit the floor and lean back right next to them, then slide back up and into another step... my personal code says that the macro is for creating hotkeys to start/change to a different dance mid-stride and for initiating flourishes only. Automating my dancing, to me, isn't dancing... it's running a program. If others want to do that, that's okay with me. But I never will. I just wouldn't feel right about it; it feels like cheating. And if I hitch a step occasionally (well, still more often than I'd like, but I'm working on it!), if nothing else my audience is reminded that there's a real person at the controls working hard for their enjoyment.
I did dance a day or two in Coronet, just to see what it was like - and got to witness first-hand the sea of zombies. "Ah", I thought, "so THIS is grinding...". And it was boring. Sure, the XP was great dancing in a really large group, but I missed the one-on-one that I had in the smaller venues... that extra personal touch that's added when things aren't so crowded. I have nothing against the AFKers. Some are hologrinding, victims of the system, IMO. Others just want to race to the top. That's okay too... I just think they're missing out on a wonderful opportunity, and that doesn't affect me at all. But so many people have thanked me directly for being a real dancer and not an AFK grinder that I know that a large part of the player community care about us and what we can provide. Not everyone appreciates the entertainers, but in my experience in just under a week, many do. And that part of the community is big enough for me.
And you know what? That kind of appreciation for my "work" is worth more to me than any amount of XP or credits. Sure, those things are nice for "gettin' mo' powerful" and all, but SWG for me is about so much more than getting stuff and killing things and getting better stuff to kill bigger things. It's an immersive experience (or, at least *I* think it should be), and entertainers who work hard at entertaining and helping to create that immersive experience are invaluable. We're the ones that create that experience for the combat players - otherwise, this game might as well just be a FPS. Those of us who started characters in the entertainment professions because we enjoy entertaining others get our immersive experience from the appreciation of the crowd. I see no reason in the world why I would give up entertaining, dancing, or SWG at all.
(Sorry, this post has gotten a little long... oh well)
I just started SWG a little less than a week ago, and jumped at the chance to play a dancer. I mean, what a great idea to have a 'support' character with integral involovement in the game system, as well as the opportunity to socialize and work on perfecting some really entertaining performances? When I game, I'm an avid role-player, and immediately fell in love with the idea and the possibilities of the entertainment professions.
I randomly chose to start out in Tyrena on Corellia, and did several of the dancer mission gigs at the out of the way hotels in town to earn a few starting credits and get some dancing practice in before I'd let anyone see me. Probably because I'm a natural entertainer at heart... I wasn't about to let anyone watch until I had at least a few decent flourish combos ready to go! So I stumbled along for awhile, figuring out the moves and trying to put together a simple routine (difficult with just Basic!), and had the good luck to run into another dancer who was just starting out. We danced together for hours, doing gig missions and practicing steps and flourishes, and how to control them to work different parts of the stage without stopping.
Finally, the gig missions sent us over to the cantina... and within minutes, I was doing my first show for an audience. Eek! So I danced away, hoping I wouldn't embarrass myself by falling down very much, and chatted away about how his hunting was going, if he liked this step or that better... and so on.
But this first dance set the tone for how I'm pursuing my dancing career. He was so appreciative, so happy that there were dancers willing to dance in an 'out of the way' cantina rather than just Theed or Coronet... and especially that there were still dancers who cared enough to do their best to entertain rather than just run up the XP as quickly as possible. Soon, several more people wandered through, again pleasantly surprised to see a performer working the cantina. I knew then that Tyrena would be my home... there were battle-weary fighters there who needed a good dancer to help ease their troubles and take their minds off the rigors of the battlefield. And they loved my dancing and conversation...
I've danced in the Tyrena cantina ever since. When no one else is there, I still dance constantly for rehearsal, changing dances mid-flourish, whatever I can do to improve my skill at dancing - all completely ATK. I've since learned about macros, but where's the fun in that? For me, the fun is in becoming skilled enough to dance on the fly - able to move where I choose to, perform a flourish for someone right where and when I want to, hit the floor and lean back right next to them, then slide back up and into another step... my personal code says that the macro is for creating hotkeys to start/change to a different dance mid-stride and for initiating flourishes only. Automating my dancing, to me, isn't dancing... it's running a program. If others want to do that, that's okay with me. But I never will. I just wouldn't feel right about it; it feels like cheating. And if I hitch a step occasionally (well, still more often than I'd like, but I'm working on it!), if nothing else my audience is reminded that there's a real person at the controls working hard for their enjoyment.
I did dance a day or two in Coronet, just to see what it was like - and got to witness first-hand the sea of zombies. "Ah", I thought, "so THIS is grinding...". And it was boring. Sure, the XP was great dancing in a really large group, but I missed the one-on-one that I had in the smaller venues... that extra personal touch that's added when things aren't so crowded. I have nothing against the AFKers. Some are hologrinding, victims of the system, IMO. Others just want to race to the top. That's okay too... I just think they're missing out on a wonderful opportunity, and that doesn't affect me at all. But so many people have thanked me directly for being a real dancer and not an AFK grinder that I know that a large part of the player community care about us and what we can provide. Not everyone appreciates the entertainers, but in my experience in just under a week, many do. And that part of the community is big enough for me.
And you know what? That kind of appreciation for my "work" is worth more to me than any amount of XP or credits. Sure, those things are nice for "gettin' mo' powerful" and all, but SWG for me is about so much more than getting stuff and killing things and getting better stuff to kill bigger things. It's an immersive experience (or, at least *I* think it should be), and entertainers who work hard at entertaining and helping to create that immersive experience are invaluable. We're the ones that create that experience for the combat players - otherwise, this game might as well just be a FPS. Those of us who started characters in the entertainment professions because we enjoy entertaining others get our immersive experience from the appreciation of the crowd. I see no reason in the world why I would give up entertaining, dancing, or SWG at all.
ChaoKuang
Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:42 am
#20
Xyrdre, I love you. XD Welcome to the light side! ^__________^
It's so good to see someone ELSE who absolutely refuses to macro, too...
Xyrdre
Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:09 am
#21
ChaoKuang wrote:Xyrdre, I love you. XD Welcome to the light side! ^__________^
It's so good to see someone ELSE who absolutely refuses to macro, too...
The light side! That's funny... I just said in another post that macroing and AFKing was like the Dark Side of entertainment. Easier. More seductive...
How's that for coincidence?
Chessack
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:12 pm
#22
Xyrdre... Welcome to the profession.
However, I think we need to separate "macros" from "AFK Macro-taining." A simple macro that you execute while at-keyboard can be a great tool to free up your hands for socializing, or for those of us with lousy memories for sequences of things, for making sure you perform the song or dance flourishes in order. There is nothing wrong with those if you do them at-keyboard. Not everyone needs them, and I kind of wish I didn't... but my memory is not good for this sort of thing, so when I get a routine I like, I write it down, and then add it to my aliases.txt file so I don't have to worry about remembering it again next time. I also like having my typing hands free to chat with the patrons.
C
However, I think we need to separate "macros" from "AFK Macro-taining." A simple macro that you execute while at-keyboard can be a great tool to free up your hands for socializing, or for those of us with lousy memories for sequences of things, for making sure you perform the song or dance flourishes in order. There is nothing wrong with those if you do them at-keyboard. Not everyone needs them, and I kind of wish I didn't... but my memory is not good for this sort of thing, so when I get a routine I like, I write it down, and then add it to my aliases.txt file so I don't have to worry about remembering it again next time. I also like having my typing hands free to chat with the patrons.
C
Xyrdre
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:24 pm
#23
Thanks for the welcome!
I could have been clearer about the way I put those comments.
In my mind, it's not macros en masse that are 'evil'... full character automation is. I just haven't run across a specific term for the fully automated, looping macros, versus the macro uses that I imagine were actually intended when included - so a little semantic confusion creeps in.
As I said before, I think that the entertainment professions exist to provide an immersive Star Wars gaming experience for all. Within that framework, I believe that there are many "legitimate" uses for entertainer macros, such as freeing up a moment to converse with players (clearly an important and intended role for entertainers) and perhaps even for creating a large-scale, polished performance for player events in-game. Unfortunately, there are also abusive macro uses that have created the AFK looping/spamming zombies that are driving so many out of their minds with frustration. In my brief experience on the forums, people seem to just say 'macro' meaning the abusive contexts... presumably for lack of a more precise term.
Here's another good general question on the topic:
Do you think anyone would would think less about macros if they weren't abused the way they are? If macros were used the way that I believe they were intended, would people be so frustrated with them? I tend to think not; in short, it seems to me that macros aren't the real community culprit, but the ability to *loop* them ad infinitum is where the blame might lie.
Does this have a ring of truth to anyone else? Is this a fresh perspective from someone who hasn't become overly frustrated yet, or am I just too new and inexperienced to understand the full depth of this issue?
Think I'll go run a new thread on this one... and try to get some constructive conversation going.
I could have been clearer about the way I put those comments.
In my mind, it's not macros en masse that are 'evil'... full character automation is. I just haven't run across a specific term for the fully automated, looping macros, versus the macro uses that I imagine were actually intended when included - so a little semantic confusion creeps in.
As I said before, I think that the entertainment professions exist to provide an immersive Star Wars gaming experience for all. Within that framework, I believe that there are many "legitimate" uses for entertainer macros, such as freeing up a moment to converse with players (clearly an important and intended role for entertainers) and perhaps even for creating a large-scale, polished performance for player events in-game. Unfortunately, there are also abusive macro uses that have created the AFK looping/spamming zombies that are driving so many out of their minds with frustration. In my brief experience on the forums, people seem to just say 'macro' meaning the abusive contexts... presumably for lack of a more precise term.
Here's another good general question on the topic:
Do you think anyone would would think less about macros if they weren't abused the way they are? If macros were used the way that I believe they were intended, would people be so frustrated with them? I tend to think not; in short, it seems to me that macros aren't the real community culprit, but the ability to *loop* them ad infinitum is where the blame might lie.
Does this have a ring of truth to anyone else? Is this a fresh perspective from someone who hasn't become overly frustrated yet, or am I just too new and inexperienced to understand the full depth of this issue?
Think I'll go run a new thread on this one... and try to get some constructive conversation going.
Xyrdre
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:31 pm
#24
Well, on second though, I think I'll wait to hear from a few others before rushing out to start a new thread. If this one's really been beaten into the ground, I'd hate to perpetuate it. Or if I'm missing some vital perspective on the issue... well, y'know.
I would just love to be able to try to find a constructive solution so we can all stop being frustrated, complaining, and going nuts... and get back to playing and having more fun.
I would just love to be able to try to find a constructive solution so we can all stop being frustrated, complaining, and going nuts... and get back to playing and having more fun.
JasonK
Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:19 pm
#25
The only perspecitive that matters is that of the Devs who coded the macro system the way it is so everybody could loop macros and play AFK if they wanted.