Entertainer Archive
Thread: How to fix the AFK problem forever.
Reachwind
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:11 am
#14
The devs want an ingame macro ability. They don't want people to be runnning third partyAFK macro software that could potentially lead to more problems like wide spread account hackings and things.
However they need to put some protections in place for entire professions being killed by AFK. They really don't understand the scope of the problem because even here on this forum when we try to point out how devestating the problem is on some servers some long time forum userswrite outhuge defensive essays. Instead of rallying to the cause they try to help by posting cheerful how tos on how to make friends and money by hiding your head in the sand.
I have played a dancer on and off since beta 3. All through beta it was repeatedly pointed out that AFK on live servers would kill entertainers. So to "fix" the problem at the last minute the devs took out xp from band flourishes. This way people wouldn't be able to get xp from the one person in the group doing bandflos.... It only took a week for the work around to start being widely distributed. Someone posted that you could loop a macro with /ui action and that was it... The first handful of master musicians and dancers on almost everysever had an AFK tag up.
To fix the problem we suggested a few ideas... Targetted healing, a more interactive dance system ala DDR and a a few other ideas. All of them flamed by the "live" dancer essay brigade.
A fix is needed and it's needed NOW not later. A temporary disablling of the /join command would free up a huge problem with buffs but the underlying problem with entertainer will always be that our healing is passive and not active. Until it requires input from the entertainer it will always be better performed by someone that can be on 24 hours a day nonstop without breaks.
Groovymarlin
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:33 am
#15
Beery wrote:
Do you folkswant the days of at-keyboard entertainers to come back? Well, apart from the fact that those days never existed - there were always more AFKers than ATKers, here's the solution:
I'm sorry, but I disagree. I remember well my days as a novice dancer in Theed Cantina. AFKers were the exception, not the rule, and the few people who did spend the day dancing or playing AFK were made fun of, mostly by the patrons. "Oh look, there's the zombie again."
I'm not positive when the balance shifted, and the AFKers began to take over, but it was some time after the first Jedi unlocked, and before everyone got a holocron for the holidays. But yes, there was a time, on my galaxy anyway, when almost all entertainers were truly entertaining, not AFK macroing.
However I agree with the rest of your post in theory, if not specifics. I think that players should not be able to circumvent the auto-AFK timer in their options. A player should be flagged AFK after some period of inactivity, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever; but no way around it. Once AFK, a player should be auto-logged out after some period of time, no more than an hour. This would be reasonably easy to implement and would solve the AFK problem, I think.
Of course, the devs could also institute some changes like you can't accrue any XP while flagged AFK. 
Sunakk
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:41 am
#16
I like the idea of not getting any exp while AFK. That's the only reason anyone does it in the first place! In my opinion, any entertaining action should be immediately stopped if the character is flagged AFK. What happens if you're playing a fizzz and you start walking? You immediately stop playing. I didn't really think about the fact people can change the AFK timer. Perhaps there should be a second, hidden one for this condition (any action). Or perhaps some kind of window popping up like when surveying/sampling. I actually enjoy getting some extra resources now and then!
In my opinion, any entertaining action should be immediately stopped if the character is flagged AFK. What happens if you're playing a fizzz and you start walking? You immediately stop playing. I didn't really think about the fact people can change the AFK timer. Perhaps there should be a second, hidden one for this condition (any action). Or perhaps some kind of window popping up like when surveying/sampling. I actually enjoy getting some extra resources now and then! I do remember the time when the AFK entertainers were the small, hated minority. Now it's like half or more of the big group aren't there, and it's really disappointing.
Beery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:55 am
#17
"I remember well my days as a novice dancer in Theed Cantina. AFKers were the exception, not the rule, and the few people who did spend the day dancing or playing AFK were made fun of, mostly by the patrons. "Oh look, there's the zombie again.""
Hmmm. Maybe my memory is going, but as I recall, AFKers were always a majority - I stopped playing partially because of the issue, and that was before the holocron feature got implemented. AFK performing was a major issue well before holocrons came along. Of course some AFKers popped up now and again to say something, but I count AFKers as those who spend the majority of the time (not necessarily all the time) AFK. Anyway, I guess the point is moot. The real issue is getting to a solution that will cutthe problemdown by a substantial amount, and I agree with anything that solves it - whether it's based on a timer formouse input, or an automatic /dump command that kicks in every 15 minutes, or stopping XP gain after a certain amount of time spent AFK. The issue must be addressed, and it's about time the developers got their fingers out and instituted one of the many methods that have been suggested by differentfolks over the past 10 months.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-14-2004 01:03 PM
Xyrdre
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:27 pm
#18
Removingthe ability for macros to be recursive would go a very long way.
Khristen
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:48 pm
#19
Perhaps some kind of system like the one that was put in for surveying (to deter AFK surveying and to add a bit of variation to an incredibly boring activity) would help. For those not familiar with it, when a character is surveying a window will periodically pop up offering other options. There are two different windows (so it's not as easy to macro an "accept"), one that offers a higher concentration in a nearby location or a high concentration in the immediate area which requires additional effort to retrieve. Maybe after playing for a certain amount of time, the character gets the option to perform a special flourish--a solo part--that isn't a part of the regular routine via a pop-up window. The character ceases to perform (or could just cease to gain xp) until an option is selected, which is much the way the survey windows operate.
Another option would be to make the AFK tag work in the same manner that driving a vehicle or riding a mount does. You can't do anything while mounted. Make it so a player with the AFK tag on (either voluntarily or by default) doesn't gain xp and can't use abilities. A work-around the macro system (that doesn't involve eliminating it) would be to put in a check for macro activity. While the character may be "active", if the only thing that's been running for a certain amount of time is a macro you get set to AFK or disconnect.
Adding an option for lower-level entertainers/musicians to participate with more experience musicians in a limited manner would also discourage the need to grind to master. If some songs had "parts" (like RL orchestrations) that varied according to a player's ability, it would allow new musicians to play with a more experienced group without that group needing to revert to SW1.
Xyrdre
Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:09 pm
#20
Removing the ability for macros to be recursive would still go a long way.
Jimpy
Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:45 pm
#21
They need to go like CoH and make it so that macros can only be played once.
NewJedi
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:49 pm
#22
Jimpy, that's my position: get rid of the recursive macro. Personally, I wouldn't care if they ditched the macro function altogether.
sweatyclimber
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:26 pm
#23
well hmm guess we played two different games then cause on ahazi atk was the norm and at most 1-2 afkrs spread out across all the cantinas...
Beery wrote:
Do youfolkswant the days of at-keyboard entertainers to come back? Well, apart from the fact that those days never existed - there were always more AFKers than ATKers, here's the solution:
brentgueth
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:29 am
#24
AFKing didn't show in the Tyrena Cantina for the first month or two on Intrepid - and everyone moved on from Tyrena before it became the dominant performer type. This was back in the days of full groups constantly. So AFKing was nto always with us and I have been griping about it since august, sept, oct sometime in there.
Beery
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:50 am
#25
I thinkyou're getting a bitcaught up in an irrelevancy here. I'm more than willing to concede that AFKers were rare on some serversbefore the hologrind (although they were not on Tempest - at least not in Coronet). My point was only to illustrate that AFK macros have always been a significant issue for entertainers, as they undoubtedly have. These forums were filled with posts about AFKers well before the hologrind began.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-15-2004 07:51 AM
Zutan
Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:42 am
#26
Khristen wrote:
Perhaps some kind of system like the one that was put in for surveying (to deter AFK surveying and to add a bit of variation to an incredibly boring activity) would help. For those not familiar with it, when a character is surveying a window will periodically pop up offering other options. There are two different windows (so it's not as easy to macro an "accept"), one that offers a higher concentration in a nearby location or a high concentration in the immediate area which requires additional effort to retrieve. Maybe after playing for a certain amount of time, the character gets the option to perform a special flourish--a solo part--that isn't a part of the regular routine via a pop-up window. The character ceases to perform (or could just cease to gain xp) until an option is selected, which is much the way the survey windows operate.
Unfortunately this was bypassed within a few days of release just by adding a line or two to your macro. Trying to force people not to AFK probably will never happen completely. I try to ignore them as much as possible since they dont really effect my gameplay other than generating more spam. All I can expect from a Dev standpoint is they help limit the AFKing.