Entertainer Archive
Thread: Healing XP slowing to a snail's pace?
SmedleyLlama wrote:
So basically what you are telling me is that you prefer to remain an anti-BF dispenser, a role that is quite easily accomplished by a single bot grinding away 24/7.
Yes. Do you want to know why?
Because BF is something that doesn't require a lot of concentration on either end to "get the math right." It simply happens. But while it happens, players are free to augment the experience in their own way. Any unattended alt can heal BF. Only live players like me can make it fun.
However, buffs are things that have nothing to do with filling in the down time with something amusing. Buffs have more to do with skilltapes, crunching macros, and reassuring the patron that they will get what they pay for. Any automated script can do that, because no patron who goes into a cantina to get buffed is in any mindset to relax and appreciate a show. They want to get the buff and go.
I don't play this game to dance in loot all day and be a short order server of buffs any boring buffbot can duplicate. I don't do this profession to dish out buffs and figure out what its worth. If I wanted to do that, there are many many professions that give me that sort of gameplay. I do this to perform and showcase my talents. BF gives me a great way to do just that. The only thing a buffing game encourages is number crunching and loot hoarding.
I cannot play that game as an unguilded performer that makes the effort to put amusement value first. Buffs are too serious of a mechanic to be lighthearted about.
PoetDancer wrote:
I cannot play that game as an unguilded performer that makes the effort to put amusement value first. Buffs are too serious of a mechanic to be lighthearted about.
Enjoy the ride!Message Edited by Schardour on 06-18-2005 10:23 AM
psikobunny wrote:The thing is Chess, they wouldn't want to see your performance, they would want you to press the buttons that lead to their buff in the most efficient and timely way possible. They would make you a vending machine. Without knowing what mechanism Development intends to use, this is the only outcome I can see.
How is that different from how it already is, and has been? They never wanted to see my performance when they had BF -- they wanted a BF healing vendor or NPC. That is why AFK bots were popular in the first place. So I am not clear on how, exactly, changing BF to Buffing alters the equation.
I totally agree that AFKing is still a major problem, and that if they do not do something to fix THAT problem, everything else they do is pretty much moot. But I don't see, at all, how changing us from BF healers to buffers affects the fundamentals at all... except that maybe, just MAYBE, the people who are bitter at us because of BF in the first place, will be a little less bitter and have a little more goodwill.
That's an unknown, I readily admit... but I can't see how getting rid of BF and replacing it with more inspirations is going to cause people to want to see my performances, vs. just getting a heal/buff, any more than they already do.
C
PoetDancer wrote:Because BF is something that doesn't require a lot of concentration on either end to "get the math right." It simply happens. But while it happens, players are free to augment the experience in their own way. Any unattended alt can heal BF. Only live players like me can make it fun.
However, buffs are things that have nothing to do with filling in the down time with something amusing. Buffs have more to do with skilltapes, crunching macros, and reassuring the patron that they will get what they pay for. A
Where are you getting this about buffs? No dev has said anything about this yet, PoetD. The only clues we have so far do not indicate the truth of your fears at all: the current way buffs are, we don't need any skill tapes, the patron doesn't have to ask us anything, the game tells him exactly what he is getting, and we don't have to do a darn thing. What evidence is there that this will change? Indeed, I would suggest that the evidence, given this is one of their new systems, is that we will not have to do anything like what you are describing, at least based on how inspiration buffs work now.
I think you are taking what another PLAYER suggested (and I seconded at the time, without giving it a huge amount of thought, though personally I still like it), which was that specific buffs would go with specific dances, and assuming that this is what the devs will do. Personally I still don't see the problem with it ("Hey baby, dance that sexy dance for me"), but no dev has suggested or endorsed the idea. A couple of players have, and that's all.
So far, the only in-game evidence we have is that inspiration buffs require no thinking on anyone's part, really, and that you can go ahead and give whatever performance you want and the player will get them. I think we should assume that will continue unless we have contrary evidence from the devs.
C
JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.
We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.
Okay I know we've asked for props but what you're proposing here is that instead of us performing in order to level up a "healing" column of skills. We will now have to craft our way up? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, I can only say, thank the gods I already have that column because I absolutely despise crafting. I had originally intended to be a master dancer/master doctor when I first started but after about 40 mins of making medicinals I dropped it lest I go completely insane. I was hoping we'd see missions that had to be completed instead (like the piloting profession) but I guess that was just crazy.
Getting rid of BF entirely? So when someone dies they'll have all those health wounds but no battle fatigue? Yeah that makes sense because finding a doctor who can heal now is really really easy. I understand the idea behind making people want to come to the cantinas rather than making them have to come to the cantinas. (So did Obi-Wanand Luke have to go to the cantina to find a ship ordid they want to?) But instead of focusing on ways to make people want to come to the cantinas how about we focus on ways to make entertainers a welcome part of the Galaxy? Let us have a function outside the cantina so that people can see we're not some freakish "social profession" who just wants to stand and chit chat all day and they won't feel like they are being forced to interact with us just to get some BF healed if they happen to die. Two years ago we were just another bunch of players just like they were. They came to the cantinas and enjoyed our contribution to their game experience. But as they began to explore more and more and we were still chained to the cantina, a rift developed. They became convinced that we were some how different and that they were some how better. Until you recreate the game that made us all the same just with different roles to play then no matter how many iterations of the "inspiration buff" you code into the software, no one will be happy with the experience.
Message Edited by Ikewe on 06-18-2005 10:49 AM
Ikewe wrote:
Okay I know we've asked for props but what you're proposing here is that instead of us performing in order to level up a "healing" column of skills. We will now have to craft our way up?
Well, Musicians find their schematics scattered throughout the different skill lines, but don't have to craft them to learn the schematic. Perhaps these won't require any type of crafting xp for levelling.
Drygo wrote:Despite what some may say, the mindbuff did not lead to all the negative effects in the Cantina. The AFK did. And, if you take away AFK, or the usefulness of AFK, then the customers are *not* going to treat you like vending machines. You know why? Because in a world without AFK, where people can't just watch the person right beside you, *you* have the power to set your own terms. If someone treats you with disrespect, you can /ignore and /denyservice. In a world without afk, you *can* set a /covercharge. The reason all of these things don't work right now has nothing to do with the services that we have offered, or might be able to offer in the future. It has everything to do with the ease of getting these services from an AFK performer.
...However, if somehow we get buffs that can't be afk'ed with efficiency, then the control is returned to the entertainers, the control to set prices and to deny service to those leet dewds who can't be bothered to respect what we do. Because I tell ya what, even during the time of the buffbots, I *never* let anyone make me feel like a vending machine, nor do I ever intend to.
Well, I'll QFE Drygo here first.
There are so few of us from the beginning left now that the reasons why things went so wrong with entertaining are being lost. I agree that it was never because of our mechanics, though I do remember some people at launch who came out of beta with a negative attitude towards battle fatigue..but I think that is mostly gone now.
Our problems have always been because of AFK. The BF system would have worked, except for AFK. Then the mind buffs that were supposed to give live entertainers an edge over AFKers again, when BF heals because free and ubiquitous... would have worked, except for AFK.
And at this point, AFKing is so ingrained in the minds of the player base how do we really think people will react to a once always-available-through-AFK required commodity like BF healing being made available only live? I personally feel that there would still be enough entertainers to cause no real disruption. But try telling that to the people who justified buying 2nd or 3rd or 4th accounts for buffbots. Try telling that to the people who tell us that entertainers don't even belong in "their" game. See how well they react, and see what kind of 3rd party programs, underground bot houses, protest schemes, and all sorts of fun ideas they come up with.
But what if we're not required? What if AFKing goes away then? Who will care enough to run a 3rd party program and risk getting banned? Who will attend a protest? Do you really think the majority of the player base will support the "right" of fast and easy unattended levelling for entertainers when they need to group and work for combat levels?
It wasn't this way in the beginning, but now.. the way of forced interaction is the way of death for entertaining. We may be able to sustain our current levels while we die, but we'll still die.
But the way of our skills becoming wanted but not needed, that is the way we can be resurrected. The way they can give us what we truly want, the removal of the zombies. The return of a pleasant cantina, instead of spam-filled hell.
We've been told over and over and over, the devs don't like AFK. Recursive macros are going away. AFK is going away in May. Any future inspirations will be ATK only. Et cetera, et cetera. And we've always argued why they should do this even though it would be hard. But this.. this makes it not so hard. This makes me think that after 2 years of fighting, we're finally going to be fixed.
I don't want us to ruin our chance to get fixed. I know it's hard, but we need to have this last bit of faith. And truly, we have seen actions to back up some of the recent statements, have we not? So I, at least, am going to head into this with the assumption that AFKing is going to be addressed, and we therefore won't need to have buffs that are dispensed in any other way than current inspiration buffs (and current BF heals). Is there a chance that I'm going to be greatly disappointed? of course. But it sure as hell isn't going to be because of my attitude.
Besides -- read this thread. Do entertainers really own battle fatigue healing any more anyway, or do people just go find the nearest jedi? And is there really that much going around that needs healing? I was already under the impression that BF had been removed but then death penalty BF was reinstated when they decided entertainers were not in the scope of CU and we would therefore need some supply of EH exp until this revamp.
Schardour wrote:
Ikewe wrote:
Okay I know we've asked for props but what you're proposing here is that instead of us performing in order to level up a "healing" column of skills. We will now have to craft our way up?
Well, Musicians find their schematics scattered throughout the different skill lines, but don't have to craft them to learn the schematic. Perhaps these won't require any type of crafting xp for levelling.
Just as a side note, we were told at the roundtable discussion last night that the trees will ALL be based on either dance or music exp respectively.
Heh don't be so quick to single them out. They got the shaft just as much as any other crafting profession. I don't see many normal Xwings any more, just the quest given Advanced. I don't see many ships at all that aren't Jedi Starfighters, Belbullab-22, or some other item the SW had no hand in crafting. Loot has always been more important than SW crafted gear, and though that's being addressed, its still a 95% truism. The new CU/RotW world has done a lot to change the fabric of the game, and no one got through unscathed.
Cindal wrote:
The CU has brought about the disintegration of all non-combat professions with the exception of shipwright as there is a place for the shipwright in the new game mechanics. Smoke and mirrors only works for so long.
Hehe
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
omadnay wrote:
We could target the politicians... they're pretty much in the same boat... with a few less oars, perhaps.
Hehe
And a few less skillpoints...
SmedleyLlama wrote:
Easy... There are what, 34 different dances/songs now in game? At 5 minutes a piece you're talking 2 hours and50 minutes to run through all of them. I think most people would bypass the bot to find an ATK that could do it for them a lot faster.
If this went live, within a month there would be 40 buffbots in Coronet and Theed, doing every buff imaginable 24/7.
And besides, only some of these buffs are going to be in demand, most likely. Sort of like how musician buffs were more in demand than dancer buffs.
Besides, I am not sure a dancer can get a sustainable influx of patrons at all hours with this scheme.
Even powergamers agree. BF is not problematic. Buffs on the other hand have a proven history of abuse and undermining of the game system.
SmedleyLlama wrote:
Wolveryne40 wrote:
Can tell you this much, you pull that BF healing aspect from entertainers. I know for a fact i wont be going in If i dont have to waste my time stopping and i can continue on grabbing loot, xp, finish quests just that little bit faster, i will be doing that.
Wolveryne,
If you had your effective combat range increased by going to see a show, would you do it? Or had your accuracy increased, or your odds of finding better loot, or anything else your mind can imagine. Would you stop by the cantina now and then?
Sure you would. Because you would be rewarded for doing so. This is positive reinforcement vs negative punishment.
Then again.. I'm not sure why you would argue against BF being removed if your time is limited already.
easy it forces me to it. which is fine. but do you honestly think they will put those in? where does it say that?
and what is with the negative versus positive? is oprah and dr. phil on staff now?
Personally i dont care either way i dont go in when my bf is 10 i go in when its like 300 plus so my limited time is used elsewhere.
if i had time i wouldnt let it roll that high. but i dont so i do not.
also depends on how little that little boost is i do not go in purely for 5% now. why would i for chump change later on?
i can up my acc really easy right now by using food, by alot more than the time it will take to watch.
Should doctors,jedi, medics, cm's stop fixing wounds thats a negative impact as well, i find spending millions on a weapons has a profound negative impact on my wallet. should we stop that too? give me a break. did someone have to go see a shrink due to the negativity of the BF? lol
You dont honestly belive they will get it in and have it working anytime this year do you ? they are not bothering with the stuff they already put in and im not talking ground shaking bugs just the little suckers that should be fixed easily enough.
Start from the noob quest and getting the barc and having sound on up . these are the things pulling people in for the time being and they cant be bother to fix the front end of the game.
what makes you think they will actually do something useful for the entertainers?
First thing out of his mouth was props. not bonuses. prop something they have to manufacture but cant because they will have there butts handed to them to go harvest which they cant do unless they take up artisan which wont help because they are still at level one. belive that will have a negative impact on them, so now they have to go get resources which starting out they cannot afford to entertain people who wont be bothered to come in for a measly 5% on anything even combined to gain xp to do it all over again.
I am pretty sure those entertainers didnt have that in mind when they chose that.
you can kid yourselves all you want but the game is steadly falling apart and should come to a screaming halt til they fix the giant mess they have going atm.
not cut another group apart and leave them broken for a year or two more.
maybe we should concentrate on whats wrong now then ask those that play what it is they want then maybe they will have something.
props, yeah thats important lol