Entertainer Archive
Thread: BuffBots, are they really the problem?
Krupskaya
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:49 pm
#144
AnakinSWG wrote:
Krupskaya wrote:
I do not use BuffBots, contrary to Til's inventions
Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. This does not validate your points. You have a problem with comprehension.
You referred to BuffBots as "mine".
If you don't understand that "mine" signifies "belongs to me", then you need to hit a dictionary, Til.
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:50 pm
#145
*sigh* Calling me a liar does nothing for me Krupskaya. You will not succeed in bringing me to a boil, nor will you succeed in making your point that I am a liar. I'm not somebody you can push over the edge. Forgive me if I don't continue this with you. Your arrogance is far more than I can take right now. I have more constructive means of furthering the entertainer profession than to argue with you about the "right" of another player to knowingly destroy the chances of survivability for another player through the circumvention of the intended use of game mechanics.
And no, this was not the intended outcome of the implementation of macros systems:
Question by Utess:*
"The Musician and Dancer professions are currently the only professions in game who's every function can be played 100% afk all of the time. While hologrinding is ending, this has given rise to a new generation of buff bots that are just as bad, if not worse, to these two professions. Do the devs have any strategies being worked on to resolve this problem? And, if so, what are they and when will we see them."
<Runesabre> We as a team feel AFK macroing is harmful to the game, especially to Dancers and Musicians. We have had a lot of discussions internally on how to solve this problem without hurting the professions at the same time.
<justG> We don't like AFK either.
<Runesabre> It's not an easy problem to solve but we definitely wish to find a solution.
*Source: Recent Stratics chat with SWG development teams.
Krupskaya
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:51 pm
#146
AnakinSWG wrote:
Perhaps it's not comprehension. Perhaps it's a need to win any argument and the willingness to obviously twist the words of another to support your argument, no matter how twisted the truth becomes in your new statements.
AnakinSWG wrote:
Krupskaya wrote:
I do not use BuffBots, contrary to Til's inventions
Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. This does not validate your points. You have a problem with comprehension.
You called BuffBots "mine". I do not use BuffBots. Consequently, you are either a liar or illiterate.
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:52 pm
#147
Fact: Calling buffbots "yours" does not implicitly imply that you use them.
PistolDance
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:52 pm
#148
Krupskaya wrote:
I trust the playerbase to make responsible choices between AFK and ATK buffers, whereas you do not. I personally think this perennial outrage and victimhood has far more badly damaged the public's perception of Entertainers than the proliferation of BuffBots ever could.
I agree with Til, in that I do not trust the playerbase to choose between AFK and ATK.
Yet I also agree with Krups that all of the buffbot removal talk has greatly damaged the "perception of Entertainers" .
Zilod
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:52 pm
#149
Krupskaya if i'm right you consider the buffbots as just a competitors for normal entertainers...
an afk entertainer have virtually no ingame costs
1) no player spend time over it, just the time to hit a button to start the macro when it log
2) no money spent, as a non real character he have no expenses, i think that most buffbots have no own houses nor different outfits (as i see them always dressed in the same manner and never to change it)
while atk entertainers have these expenses
1) time spent, an entertainer player spend is time while buffing, healing people, play in the cantina to make a nice show, many people see entertainer as a profession whitout costs, but the real cost is the time spent, not just for entertainer, but forr all other crafting professions players spend their time to aquire resources or to make money to aquire resources and then to work on the resources to create the final product, entertainers have no need for resources, they put all their 'time expenses' are put in the final product.
2) atk entertainers have generally social lives, as most atk players. they have houses, outfits, furniture, and these are expenses.
we then can ad that buffbots can stay in a cantina virtually 23/7 while is quite impossible for a human entertainer, so the buffbot offer a service that an atk entertainer can't provide
put them togater and you see a big difference...
buffbots have 100% profit, they have no expenses, they can offer their service even for free and for undeterminated amount of time
entertainers spend their time playing and as normal characters they have social live and they spend their money for houses and so on, so they have not the same profit as buffbots.
we can put in it even the fact that for the actual mechanic a buffbot is more easy to use than a live entertainer and players are now used to buffbots
for example atk entertainers group togather to have more fun, an afk entertainer is in no need for fun so he can play solo... this make a big difference for buffs...
you can easilly invite a buffbot and get buffed and this service can be provided for a large number of people or for an entire group, for grouped atks is more problematic, the group can be alredy full or cause many entertainers, or the group leader can have problems to 'trak' people to add in the group (is not so difficult to miss a group message or a tell if entertainers are conversating and with the xps spam on monitor.
there are also other problems but it's becoming long so i cut 
all of this turn out to be in worse buffing service from atk entertainers.
all of this to say that
buffbots have 100% profit, no expense and offer a better buffing service
and this not because the player that play it is more skilled than me (so he deserve to be better than me in a free market) but just because he is not playing
as you can see there is something wrong in this...
this is a game and players are supposed to play activelly their characters
and here we come to another point for wich afk/buffbots are a sort of cantina plague
they ruin all the atmosphere and make cantinas unfriendly places
your account is old i think you know how the cantinas used to be before hologrinding and how is it now, the fact that you support live entertainers make me think that you prefer them, and the cantina the way it was, before afk 'invasion'
If for a combtant or artisan that stop to the cantina to get mind healed or for some relax (now quite impossible) can be bad, think how it can be for live entertainers that play here day after day... simply there is a moment that they can't stand anymore in it, so they leave the profession or the game.
i can put in it my experience, i had a lot of fun in the cantina, playing with friends and performing for customers, now the rare times i log i play at starports or in the ID tent.
Look at this thread or at other post in the forum, there are many people who left the profession for this problem and because (with afk entertainers) live entertainers where useless.
all these people (myself included) had they fun ruined because their playstile is no more present in the game as had been destroyed/replaced by a macro automation.
Krupskaya
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:54 pm
#150
AnakinSWG wrote:
*sigh* Calling me a liar does nothing for me Krupskaya. You will not succeed in bringing me to a boil, nor will you succeed in making your point that I am a liar. I'm not somebody you can push over the edge. Forgive me if I don't continue this with you. Your arrogance is far more than I can take right now. I have more constructive means of furthering the entertainer profession than to argue with you about the "right" of another player to knowingly destroy the chances of survivability for another player through the circumvention of the intended use of game mechanics.
I don't much care about whether or not I induce your blood to boil. You blatantly lied and have compounded your deception by calling me arrogant, a fool, and a bully. That makes you a slanderer without courage and fortitude to match your viciousness -- you lied about me, and then cried "foul!" when I reacted with outrage. That means you are also a coward.
And no, this was not the intended outcome of the implementation of macros systems:
Question by Utess:*
"The Musician and Dancer professions are currently the only professions in game who's every function can be played 100% afk all of the time. While hologrinding is ending, this has given rise to a new generation of buff bots that are just as bad, if not worse, to these two professions. Do the devs have any strategies being worked on to resolve this problem? And, if so, what are they and when will we see them."
We as a team feel AFK macroing is harmful to the game, especially to Dancers and Musicians. We have had a lot of discussions internally on how to solve this problem without hurting the professions at the same time.
We don't like AFK either.
It's not an easy problem to solve but we definitely wish to find a solution.
*Source: Recent Stratics chat with SWG development teams.
This proves nothing insofar as I have never insisted AFK macroing is beneficial to the game. I have merely claimed it is a necessary evil to protect the greater good of consumer choice. You have openly avowed that you don't respect the players to make a responsible choice, Til, but I'm unwilling to presume the worst about them. You, apparently, have no problem with presuming the worst about people, starting from when you accused me of using BuffBots without any corroboration.
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:55 pm
#151
AnakinSWG wrote:
Fact: Calling buffbots "yours" does not implicitly imply that you use them.
Krupskaya
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:56 pm
#152
AnakinSWG wrote:
Fact: Calling buffbots "yours" does not implicitly imply that you use them.
So you only stated that I owned them without using them? That's even more inane. "Your" is a possessive, you know. Possessives denote possession. And you can't possess something without owning it. 
Krupskaya
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:58 pm
#153
AnakinSWG wrote:
AnakinSWG wrote:
Fact: Calling buffbots "yours" does not implicitly imply that you use them.
BTW, Til, "implicitly imply" is redundant, much like "explicitly explain" would be. I wouldn't normally bother pointing this out but, granted that you're apparently confused about what a "possessive" is, I feel it is my civic duty. 
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:00 pm
#154
Krupskaya wrote:
This proves nothing insofar as I have never insisted AFK macroing is beneficial to the game. I have merely claimed it is a necessary evil to protect the greater good of consumer choice. You have openly avowed that you don't respect the players to make a responsible choice, Til, but I'm unwilling to presume the worst about them. You, apparently, have no problem with presuming the worst about people, starting from when you accused me of using BuffBots without any corroboration.
Player choice is greater than the survivability of our profession?
Please clarify.
(The quote had nothing to do with proving the point that you are wrong. It was an expansion of the previous statements I made in that same post. If you look, those really did not directlyaddress your concerns. Sorry, but you aren't the only focus of my attentions.)
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:04 pm
#155
Krupskaya wrote:
you can't possess something without owning it.
On that note, somethingdoes not have to be tangible to be "possessed." Buffbots were referred to as a concept. Your support of the concept belongs to you. You support buffbot presence. You OWN this personal belief about buffbots. I've stated several times that you are twisting words in an attempt to discredit somebody that you do not agree with. You can continue to do so, but it makes you appear bothshallow and indifferent in your choice of arguments.
AnakinSWG
Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:05 pm
#156
And exactly what points have you established as fact?
Oh right, I'm a liar. Anything else?