Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Harvest Droid Data Highlighting Current Wonkiness
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Shmook
Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:44 pm
#1
Since the other thread I started seemed to generate little interest once it was assumed that the harvest issue to which I was referring was simply the same old "group bug", I decided to start another with some additional data that shows the wonkiness of creature harvesting droids. The issue is NOT about using a harvest droid while grouped with another player, rather, it is that the droid often yields fewer units of resources per harvest than if the player had harvested alone (although as the data below shows, it’s not quite that clear cut). The data I present here is from 4 different cases that show the kind of results I've been hearing from my customers about harvest droids. In the past I always assumed the problem was the “group bug” but once I saw this data, I realized that there really was something screwy in how the droids were working. I think this merits more attention and I urge anyone and everyone to recreate these results or to provide their own data so that we can understand what’s going on here. I personally believe that the combat level of the creature to be harvested vs. the player’s combat level affects the overall harvest result.
Please note: All tests were done by one person at a time, not grouped with any other player. All tests were done with a CL 30, 110-rated harvest droid. In each case, the player went through 3 series of kills or lairs of the same animal type. In the first series or lair, the player harvested hides on their own (labeled PLAYER). In the second series or lair, the player used the droid to harvest hides but did not group with the droid (labeled DROID). In the third series or lair, the player grouped with the droid and used the droid to harvest hides (labeled GROUP). Each player did this once for a “low” combat level creature and a “high” combat level creature. The average yield of hides per lair or series is listed.
What I would expect to find is that harvests from DROID should be higher than PLAYER because of the bonus generated by the 110-rated harvest droid. I would also expect the harvest from GROUP to be lower than DROID, due to the “group bug”.
Case 1: Player was CL 80, Master Ranger/Master Rifleman, Bothan, 150 Creature Harvest Rating
“Low Level”: CL 15 Mutant Womp Rats, Tatooine
ALONE: 63
DROID: 47
GROUP: 48
ALONE: 63
DROID: 47
GROUP: 48
“High Level”: CL 80 Graul Maulers, Dantooine
ALONE: 524
DROID: 563
GROUP: 535
ALONE: 524
DROID: 563
GROUP: 535
Case 2: Player was CL 80, Master Smuggler, Master Pistoleer, 0330 BH, Wookie, 15 Creature Harvest Rating
“Low Level”: CL 15 Mutant Womp Rats, Tatooine
ALONE: 27
DROID: 29
GROUP: 29
ALONE: 27
DROID: 29
GROUP: 29
“High Level”: CL 80 Graul Maulers, Dantooine
ALONE: 159
DROID: 201
GROUP: 205
ALONE: 159
DROID: 201
GROUP: 205
Case 3: Player was CL 16, 4040 Scout, Novice BE, some marksman, Sullustan, 55 Creature Harvest Rating
“Low Level”: CL 4 Womp Rats, Tatooine
ALONE: 11
DROID: 6
GROUP: 6
ALONE: 11
DROID: 6
GROUP: 6
“High Level”: CL 15 Scyks, Tatooine
ALONE: 35
DROID: 37
GROUP: 37
ALONE: 35
DROID: 37
GROUP: 37
Case 4: Player was CL 1, Novice Dancer/Musician, Novice Scout, Twi’Lek, 15 Creature Harvest Rating (the creatures for this case were “roamers” and not from a lair generated by a mission).
“Low Level”: CL 2 Tame Worrts, Tatooine
ALONE: 7
DROID: 3
GROUP: 3
ALONE: 7
DROID: 3
GROUP: 3
“High Level”: CL 3 Worrts, Tatooine
ALONE: 8
DROID: 4
GROUP: 4
ALONE: 8
DROID: 4
GROUP: 4
Here’s a summary table that hopefully comes out correctly on this post.
“Low” 1 2 3 4
ALONE 63 (0) 27 (0) 11 (0) 7 (0)
DROID 47 (-16) 29 (+2) 6 (-5) 3 (-4)
GROUP 48 (-15) 29 (+2) 6 (-5) 3 (-4)
DROID 47 (-16) 29 (+2) 6 (-5) 3 (-4)
GROUP 48 (-15) 29 (+2) 6 (-5) 3 (-4)
PlayerCL 80 80 16 1
TargetCL 15 15 4 2
TargetCL 15 15 4 2
“High” 1 2 3 4
ALONE 524 (0) 159 (0) 35 (0) 8 (0)
DROID 563 (+39) 201 (+42) 37 (+2) 4 (-4)
GROUP 535 (+11) 205 (+46) 37 (+2) 4 (-4)
DROID 563 (+39) 201 (+42) 37 (+2) 4 (-4)
GROUP 535 (+11) 205 (+46) 37 (+2) 4 (-4)
PlayerCL 80 80 16 1
TargetCL 80 80 15 3
TargetCL 80 80 15 3
No scenario actually works as I might expect based on what we currently assume about the harvest module and, frankly, I’m a little confused by these numbers. It appears that the combat level of the creature to be harvested plays some role in determining the amount of harvest. Of course, creatures with higher combat levels yield more resources in general, but it seems that the difference between the player’s combat level and the creature’s combat level may somehow affect the end result. Droid harvesting from creatures with a lower combat level than the player yielded fewer resources in scenarios 1 and 3 than if they had harvested themselves. In both of these scenarios, the yield increased as the creature’s combat level match or exceeded their own.
But why does scenario 2 ALWAYS show an increased yield with a droid while scenario 4 ALWAYS shows a decreased yield with a droid, particularly since they both have the same creature harvest bonus from their templates? It could be that scenario 4’s combat level is simply too low to “trigger” the benefit of the harvest droid. It could also be that scenario 2’s combat level is high enough to “trigger” the harvest bonus and the creature harvesting value is low enough that it always sees a benefit even when the creature’s combat level is low.
So if I had to make any recommendations to my customers based off of this data, it would be that the harvest droid is a perfect companion for high combat level players with a low creature harvesting ability. Players with a high combat level and a high creature harvest rating should be careful to only use the droid with creatures of similar combat level. Low combat level players should probably stay away from using harvest droids unless their combat level gets above 11, and then only against creatures with similar combat levels. It seems, though, that there are far too many caveats with this droid module to make it useful for my general customer base so that I’m beginning to rethink offering this droid type. This is particularly so given that simply grouping with another player will most likely result in a larger bonus that the droid itself can produce.
Or course, my conclusions may be entirely wrong and I encourage anyone and everyone to comment on this or to provide additional data to help us all understand this. I’m sure someone smarter than me out there probably sees some formula at work here but my brain just doesn’t work that way! It has been mentioned that the overwhelming creature harvest bonus for Master Rangers actually tips the underlying formula into the negative, as in scenario 1 for the “low” creature, but it doesn’t explain the “high” result or why similar results are happening all over the combat level and creature harvest ability continuum.
Anyway, thanks so much for putting up with me and for taking the time to read my long post! I hope we can either figure this out or get some dev attention on this.
Jenden
Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:22 pm
#2
Thanks for the numbers, definately something going on here... I'll forward them on to the appropriate people.
Xrystal
Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:27 am
#5
I will try testing this myself and see if I can get a level by level set of values. But I have been hunting in a high level group and been harvesting with and without the droid .. with and without eating Veghash.
Character is around Level 45 with the mainly Level 70-80 group fighting against Level 75-85 creatures.
Droid Harvest - approx 250-300 - 15 bonus I think
Self Harvest - approx 400-500 - Scout 4040 (Rodian)
Needless to say most of the harvesting was done by hand..
Jenden
Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:59 pm
#6
Shmook wrote:
Jenden, any word or hint from the devs on this issue?
nope.
Xrystal
Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:23 am
#7
Okay testing so far while grouped with droid:
CL48 Rodian with +45 Creature Harvesting and +17 Creature Harvesting Droid all Tatooine Creatures
Level | Name| Self| Droid
CL1|Kreetle| 7m 9h NA| 1m 1h NA(insect/scaley)
CL1 | Dwarf Nuna| 6m 8h ?b| ?m?h ?b(avian/leathery/avian)
CL1 | Sickly Womp Rat| 6m 8h 7b| 1m 1h 1b(wild/leathery/animal)
CL2 |Rill| 8m 9h 7b| 3m 3h 3b(carnivore/bristley/animal)
CL2| Tame Worrt| 7m 9h 7b| 2m 3h 2b(reptilian/leathery/animal)
CL3 | Worrt| 9m 11h 9b| 3m 4h 3b(wild/leathery/animal)
CL3 | Vicious Rill| 9m 11h 9b| 3m 4h 3b(carnivore/bristley/animal)
CL4| Tempest Rill|10m 12h 10b| 5m 5h ?b(carnivore/bristley/animal)
CL6| Kreetle| 11m15hNA| ?m ?h NA(insect/scaley)
CL7| Servort| 14m 16h ?b| ?m ?h ?b(reptilian/leathery/animal)
CL9| Rockmite| 18m 23h NA|13m16h NA(insect/scaley)
Well this didnt seem to demonstrate anything much .. and what we must consider is the fact like the land harvested resources they shift .. so maybe there is some level being associated with certain types of creature resources. But so far it seems these values may be stored in floating point format and thus affect output if you harvested 4.4 instead of 4.6.
Message Edited by Xrystal on 09-11-2005 08:42 PM
Message Edited by Xrystal on 09-11-2005 08:44 PM
Message Edited by Xrystal on 09-11-2005 08:46 PM
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