Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Can't make money till master???
This is stemming from a prevous discussion that was held (rather hotly) on the Brochure thread, and that is the use of the general socket cluster bug to make profit. It was pointed out that (and I misquote):
"The simple fact that you can make ANYTHING with the skill set of 3/3/0/4 as a DE makes this infinite stacking module thing an EXPLOIT"
Technically, 4-3-0-4 is the limit before you can make everything (structure crafting stations come with level 4 of the first row). Now this begs the question: At that rate we're 2/3rds the way through the profession (66.7%, or 12 out of 18 boxes). And even there we are not allowed to make a dime on our droids? We have to wait till we're master (with level 6 modules) and a large slush fund of specialized rare materialsbefore we can start building droids that we can sell? I'm sorry, but that seems a little overly harsh.
Now, LET IT BE WARNED NOW! This is not a discussion on ifthesocket cluster bug should be used or not. Indeed, this post is created to look into alternate approaches (with exception of the last one) for non-master DEs to persue so that they don't have to use the cluster bug.Below are my observations, and I would well appreciate if everyone could forumlate out a few more workable solutions to this problem other than saying "No you can't, naughty poor persons"
With that said, here'sa fewthoughts I've had on getting non-master DEs to be able to make a buck on their craft till they hit master:
Let each master DE take an apprentice "Padawan" DE under their wing. Yes... all you who shout "Exploiter! Cheater!" now is your time to prove that you are better than those that abuse the single bug out of a hundred that helps DEs. Here's what you do. Take a novice DE under your wing and be willing to answer any and all questions they have. Once you've trained them up in the basic art of DE, let them grind their way up the ranks.
At blueprints 3 they can now build probot frames for you. Offer to buy a few of these at a time for adecent price (suggested 10k). A full fledged probot should fetch at least 30k so itcan fall well within a profit margin. Probots move fast enough (usually) that it should be possible to buy up 3-5 a week. If you don't sell probots, then have them build manipulator arms, droid brains, and motive systems for you. Whatever you find yourself in short supply of or constantly use that is a Droid part. This will give you a nice source of parts and will keep your padawan's pockets filled with enough credits to run their harvesters.
As soon as they have Blueprints 4, they are ready to start their 'trials.' Here they can now craft advanced probots. This is where the tables will turn and it will be up to them to buy parts from you. You will now sell them level 6 medical and inventory modules, as well as some level 4 armour plates and crafting stations. If R2s are the rage then maybe even prepare some pre-made clusters with popular configurations (food/chem and med, or food/chem, med, and inventory) and sell those to your Padawan. They will then, in turn, build R2s and/or adv probots to sell on the market. With that, you will need to teach them your best marketing strategies (The best bet would be to copy my brochure on the other page and edit it to only show the prices of the droid models the padawan can build/has ready).
Once the Padawan is successfully selling droids, then things should go smoothly from there on out. Money should be easier for them to make and you can get the satisfaction of knowing that you are preventing another possible exploiter from appearing.
I'm sure you're wondering what the feasability of all this is. Well, I'll tell you. I've already done it twice, and even now have my third padawan under my wing. My first two have both reached the state of master and I couldn't be happier. But it takes a good amount of emails and a few hours a week to do this, so it's up to you. A good place to set something like this up would be at the next DEA meeting. But enough on this idea, lets move on.
Set up a Droid Engineer Parts vendor in your house. This is a lot less intense than the previous method, but will still require work on your part. What, you thought that by just telling people "naughty naughty naughty" you wouldn't have to do any work? That's like telling a starving man not to eat a free doughnut because it has too much fat in it.
But getting back, yes. Start up a parts vendor and sell L6 modules and crafting modules at fairly cheap to decent prices. Get to know your local non-master DEs and tell them bout your store. Again, you may have to educate them a bit on how to build the sellable droids.
Donations or loans for harvester maintenence. I'm sure they would all love access to enough cash to pay for some of their bills till they can pay for the bills themselves.
Continue in arrogance and ignore the situation. Not everyone can afford to have your ethics mateys. Either find some way to contribute to the community or accept the fact that those starving bedraggled non-master DEs out there would like to make enough credits to at least cover their mineral harvesters, with maybe one or two to spare for having fun once a week. I'm sure that no one herejoined up with SWG with the determination to NOT enjoy themselves, so why should we attempt to force our own 'stealth nerf' on their enjoyment because we have a higher sense of standards? Once they reach our level then they can decide to clean up their act But until they are able to stand up off their knees andbehead and shoulders with the rest of us, I don't think kicking them in the gut is going to help matters much.
So, in closing, I have yet to come up with a way that pure non-master DEs can make enoughmoney to support themselves without support from the community. However this is an open thread for Other Methods on How Non-Master DEs Can Make Money. (emphasized as I would like to see everyone work constructively on this one and post suggestions rather than flames.) With that all said, good luck mateys, I look forward to reading other ideas on the matter.
Another simple solution may becoming soon, but not from the profession directly. Completely forgot to include vehicles (as any novice DE would be able to build them.
Course, we have to see how well they will sell before judging on if a non-master can make enough of a living to fund harvesters.
Thanks for the misquote TheWoody
I have to argue that a non Master can make a considerable amount of credits by selling droids, due to stacking. As you pointed out, not everyone can have the ethics of not using the cluster module in every droid(not trying to debate its use, butby bring up the question of ethics it is a reference to the use of the cluster mod.). I often see non Masters trying to push 'Level 6' modules that use the stacking method to gain the result. I know that they are not actual Level 6 modules by looking at the data supplied in the deed form.
I took the route of taking on an Appretience, not long after I became a Master DE and even formed a partnership with him after he hit Master. The problem with keeping an apprentience after a certain point is that I no longer use individual parts when I make droids. Every single part that I make is now made in a factory, on my live character. It saves on space and time, since I have 6 factories to run parts on. Having an apprentience now actually hinders business for me, since I run such an automated system. The only time that I get my hands greasy is when make the final product.
Setting up a vendor with Level 6 parts is a good idea, but the down fall of it is how much do you charge for a crate of 25 Level 6 Item storage modules, when Lidium Extrusive is so rare?As most will point out here, DE tend to charge more for the higher level modules, then they do for the actual droid chassis. Unless you are selling droids with Level 6 modules on your server for around 20k each, there will be many who will buy the Level 6 modules and undersell you, while on their route to Master. The other problem with selling Master Quality items is that it makes it so a Novice would never have to level beyond 3/0/0/4, since everything that they need is on such a vendor.
Loans and Donations are a great way to help out a fellow DE and are a great way to strength the community, but the problem with them is that you can be burnt very easily if you give them to the wrong person. Generosity isa really great virute, however it is also the one virtue that can be used against you.
Playing a crafting class is not for the casual gamer. There is too much involved for it to be a part of the casual gamers time spent in game. All non-Master crafters will make less credtis than a Master will. It is how the system was set up. Is it fair? Yes. Just like in the real world, only the best at what they do make the credits. It is a plan and simple fact. Either you offer the best product, offer the best advertising, offer the best prices, or offer the best combonation of all three items. Giving away items to help someone out, or offering them the chance to buyan item so that they can offer a better product doesn't actually help them much in the long run. The way that you become a better business is through educating yourself in the ways of throwing the perfect sales pitch, or finding out what the best market price is, or even finding the best location to set up a business.
Those items can be taught to anyone, that is willing to take the time to learn them from you. If you want to help out a non-Master of any crafting profession, let them watch you make the sale or give them pointers on what makes a good location. Give them info on a good pricing system and which places are best to hang out. As Drashk, I am one of the more successful DE on Shadowfire, becuase I know what it is like to be a good salesperson and how to run a business. I learned this in the real world. Most of the time, the reason that I have seen DE fail, as well as many other Merchant/crafters, is not so much because of the product that they are offering, but rather because of their ability, or lack of, to sell the product. Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths have it a lot easier than we do, due to the simple fact that their product is a nessecity if you wish to join in combat, like so many wish to do. Engineers, Architects, Tailors, and Chefs are nothing more than a product of want made by the combat classes. Items that are needed are a lot easier to sell than items that are wanted. To make a better sellsperson, you must make the person realize that the item that you are selling is something that they need, and not just something that they should want.
I'm not rich, but I make enough money to keep the grind going. I'm still pretty new at the whole DE thing, only 1/0/1/3 right now. But I sell an R4 orR5with a weapon crafting station or surgical droid with Med 2 now and then. I also sell quite a few seeker and arakyd probes. Where I make the most money right now is batteries. Some scoff at this idea, but I make quite a bit of money on them. 18 resources per stack, 450 per crate. High conductivity copper is plentiful so it's easy to experiment them to 100 charges per crate. I sell them for 2500 each and they fly off the bazaar. I could probably raise the price to 3000 per crate.
I also went architect and make a few creds by selling 30+ crafting stations. Along with master artisan, DE and architect seem to go well together, both professions needing something from the other. Making some high quality control units and droid storage modules I can make some pretty decent crafting stations which fetch a good price.
All said I can afford to keep my harvesters going so I can continue the grind to Master DE. That's as much as I could ask for right now.
Skelek wrote:
you guys make money?
Approaching the 2 million mark, will hit it this week. And 80% of that is off selling BH droids.
Not wanting to sound rude, but it'll come out like that anyways:
Take the competition under your wing and help them? Since when did Papa Johns help Pizza Hut?