Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Who should be able to use combat droids?

ideas
Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:28 pm
#1

I've seen a lot of posts about Droid Handlers, mini-professions, and certifications. Maybe I'm all alone but my impression is that droids should not be "for" elite combat characters at all. I think they should be how the non-combat people (artisans, entertainers, etc.) get something to do in a fight.


I am a pure crafter now, and have been for quite a while. Master Artisan, MDE, Master Merchant, some architect. No combat skills anywhere. When my friends go hunting, I'm kind of a dead weight for them. I take some of the combat XP (which I don't need) and money (which I don't need) from them by participating, and I contribute very little compared to the combat characters and medics.


PvP is even worse. I can trick NPC monsters, make them fight my probot or whatever, but actual players with tuned packages can smack me down even if I hide around a corner. Not complaining about that. They spent for combat so they should kick my butt! No droid should change that.


I think that the purpose of combat droids should be to lets non-combat PCscontribute toa fight. Combat droids should not be a match for an elite combat PC. At best, they should be comparable to a Master Brawler or Master Marksman with no elite combat training.


Keep their power low, and let anyone use them. If there are more powerful combat droids, put the skills to use them in Artisan and DE lines. Let DEs control more of these low-power droids (by understanding droid brains, DEs know how to keep more droids doing what they should) than some others, but even a well-stocked DE should be no match for a master CH or master of any elite combat profession.


Now, for those combat characters who should be better than some wimp with a droid -- hey, ANYONE can use 1 droid. So the combat character has all of his fighting skills AND a droid, against a droid and a wimp. They maintain their edge handily.


Keep their power low, and let them be fine-tuned for different purposes. This droid spits acid, this one has lots of armor, this one is weak but has cargo space... Let droids be about versatility not raw power.



So, my vote is NO certs, NO Droid Handler, NO mini-profession, just low and mid-power droids to let non-combat characters contribute in a group fight and to give combat characters with droids an edge over those without.








So, let me get this straight: To advance my character, I have to give up my current abilities?

Flurry: Ikeya Ibye (Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan, Master Merchant)

IKEYA Grand Mall - Naboo, Moenia - Waypoint 5000 -4000



ScrufylookinNerfherder
Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:36 pm
#2

**edit** I have to agree with this one too.......too bad there is soo many good ideas, but none listened too.


And what the heck! I was gonna say something that I thought was really important.....And now I forgot! F! Ill prolly post again when I remember it.





Mullet ~ Droid Engineer ~ Former Master Merchant ~ Master Artisan ~ Novice Rifleman ~ Corbantis ~ Shop and rare items house located in Salanar on Naboo(Merchant City)
Haruspex77
Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:39 pm
#3

I completely agree with Ideas' argument, though not the conclusion.





So, my vote is NO certs, NO Droid Handler, NO mini-profession, just low and mid-power droids to let non-combat characters contribute in a group fight and to give combat characters with droids an edge over those without.



Low power droids aren't going to make you contribute any more to a group than with a probot.


The big problem with introducing high power droids is that they give too much combat power to newbies and combat characters. That forces the level of the mobs up. They have to require enough skill points to be used (with appropriate experience) to keep that from happening. Hence certification or a new class.


The right place for the certs is in the Artisan based classes. That DEs should get some is obvious, to use their own product, but some should go to others so there are customers who are not just lazy DEs orgrinders ofthe profession for combat purposes. TH's comments, though,made it clear that they could not change a whole bunch of classes.


My suggestion is for the rest of the certs to go to Merchant. Almost every crafter takes merchant skills at some point, though they usually drop them since they are useless once you have your vendors placed. If the highest level of droid calling was for a Master Merchant/Master DE, that would pretty much be the only combat skill that character had. A Master Merchant/Master other-artisan shouldn't be too weak to compete with Smugglers or even CHs who weren't maxed out for combat.


We all agree that a DH profession is a lousy idea, because all the real content is in DE. TH's comments only offer the possibility of certs on one or two classes. I think this is the only way to go.


Unfortunately, this is stiring little interest in the Merchant forum, and without that it will never happen. Most merchants have no interest in combat. We need to stir up the Trade Federation to see where its interest lies!




Mandril
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:06 pm
#4

Well...(dons patented Human-safe Asbestos Battle Shorts [tm])...


Let's look at the Star Wars films...answer? Anyone.


Let's look at SWG...answer? Hoo boy! If anyone can use a Droideka or other high-powered Combat Droid, all that work on "rebalancing" just went down the tubes, didn't it?


DE's should have been "empowered" as BE's recently were, from the very beginning. Instead, the very first thing to get the Almighty Nerf Bat was the Probot. Now tell me, with the class "rebalancing" going on (read: Nerf every NPCdownward, and all PC Combat classes [yes, TK's and Commandos your time is coming, sadly] downward), willhigh-end Combat Droids throw a large Monkey Wrench [read: Holocron's involved in this! I can smell it!] in the works? Yep.


A DH profession you say? You've got to be kidding. Certs? Again, you've got to be kidding. In the Star Wars films, anyone can use a droid. That's their purpose - they aid life forms - they are machines.


Long story short, it's another fine mess SOE has gotten us into. They couldn'tengineer their way out of a wet paper bag given a dry bag, a bottle of water, and detailed instructions.





"Now with Force Sensitivity!"




Kyroneus
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:31 pm
#5

Again , I think that this should all stay under Artisan or DE , and not involve a Handler profession


True , BEs can't use all the creatures they make , but they can make all sorts of useful items NOT involved in cloning animals.


With Droid Engineer , all you get is droids , droids , and some droids that you can't use.


Perhaps the answer isn't in making UBER droids , but allowing us to use MORE droids at once of the same power level , and having combat droids with different combat types (ie Faster rate of fire than a probot , but less damage , etc)


Just my 2 cents' worth





Kumara
Kicking butt the best way I can
We can't stop here! It's BAT country!
Hack2k
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:41 am
#6

I dont know if it was mentioned( because i dont have time to read it all, time for bed), but maybe they could add a certain amount of "Max droid lvl" to the engineer skill blocks in the artisan tree. novic artisan gets the standard lvl 10 as do the others and for each lvl of engineer it would be something like the new CH tree.


lvl 1 engineer:+2 to max droid lvl


lvl 2 engineer: +3 to max


lvl 3: +4 to max


lvl 4: +5 to max



and at novice in any elite tree youd get an additional +10 or whatever
DarkMist25
Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:39 am
#7

How does being a engineer enable one to use with full proficiency one's own products? I don't care how long i spend manufacturing tank parts for the military, i won't be getting better at their use or employment on a battlefield. It's the same with combat droids. Not utility droids, those are designed to be used by anyone. I'm speaking of the potent combat droids only. Those belond to a class that knowns hot to use them in combat, that knowns how to mantain them in the field, and that understands all the tactics involved with using droids. No such class currently exists. The game mechanics for droids and creatures are exactly the same, so lets use the BH/CH model already in employment. Why? Because, quite simply it works well.



Azahlun Nai'Shadrin--Artisan,DE,Swordsman--Ahazi
ResourceMonkey
Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:53 am
#8

As I always say - never compare RL to a game - balancing issues destroy any of those comparisons because RL isn't fair and balanced


In another thread, I had come up with an idea for 'new powerful combat droids'. These droids are tempermental and don't always listen to their owners. The more powerful they are, the less likely they are to listen to you. However, the more powerful you are (skill points), the more they will listen ((And maybe a few extra points for MDE's?) The mission terminals already can decide difficulty modifiers the same can be done to the droids. Also, the more you use the droid, the more it listens to you, the more it will obey you. So that after using your droid for a while, it will eventually listen to you 100%.


This would stop any low level butt-nut from getting a Droidika and hunting Sludge Panthers when they should hunt Nuna's. Who'd want to sic a droid on a Sludge Panther if it might not do anything other than cause the panther to attack you?



FRUGA HAS LEFT THE GALAXY - Good luck all, I'm done with this game - Account Closed 9/10/2004
with a two month visit again from 6/05-7/05


Upon launch of JTL - An Empire Deserted (no one on planet) Coming in 2005! "Star Wars Galaxies: The Jedi Empire"
ASHRID
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:26 am
#9

I'd sooner not have combat droids


They arent commonplace in the time period anyway - this is alot of fuss for something that just shouldnt be there
DarkMist25
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:07 am
#10

I admit that this wasnt the best time period to set the game in. However, it's been set here, and from this point on i don't want things would could be generally fun not be accessible to us because of "continuity" or "starwarsiness". The questions of "is it fun?" should be the overriding factor for every decision made, not how closely we can make swg become a rerun of the movies.


I'm sorry for the real world example, i was just trying to make a point with it. De's have no practical experience with combat droid use was my point. So therefore it makes sense to create a new class that does. Everyone has some droid use experience, and thats why everyone should be able to use utility and light defensive droids.The larger combat droids however should only be used by those willing to spend points to acquire the skill and expertise in their use. Thats all i was attempting to get across. A cert system just doesnt cut it, how does learning to be a certain tree in any of the current professions relate at all to operating complex combat droids?





Azahlun Nai'Shadrin--Artisan,DE,Swordsman--Ahazi
ideas
Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:21 pm
#11

I'd love to combine together my thoughts with those of Kyroneus and Hack2K... And add in a thought I had from another thread.


Let droids be versatile -- made to different purposes, but not terribly powerful. Maybe the best droid is only equivalent to a CL 20 pet. I'm pretty happy with my level 10 probot. I don't really need a more powerful droid but if people want one I think CL 20 would be noticably better.


Next, put in just a few handling certs for those Level 11-20 droids. Engineering gives a few, DE gives a few. I'd love to give some to Entertainers who need them as much as artisans, but it's even harder to justify... Maybejust sprinkle droid handling levels intoeach of theMaster profession boxes -- as part of becoming a master of any profession, one learns how to deal with the most complex tools of the trade -- including droids.


Finally, add in a Droid-Owner Efficiency rating, that basically means that a new droid (or old droid with a new owner) is not as effective as one that's been used a lot by the same person. This factor prevents newbies from getting powerful droids quickly (because the droid isn't very effective until the newbie isn't a newbie any more), and prevents droids from being thought of as disposable pets (each new one needs to be "broken in").








So, let me get this straight: To advance my character, I have to give up my current abilities?

Flurry: Ikeya Ibye (Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan, Master Merchant)

IKEYA Grand Mall - Naboo, Moenia - Waypoint 5000 -4000



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