CUEmu - Thread Posts

Jjiaah

Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:56 pm

I've posted this in the Artisan forum, and also in a thread on this page, and have gotten almost 100% positive reviews.

But I would like to get more input on it. As I deeply respect the opinions of my fellow DE's (most of you have very good heads on your shoulders, and are analytical thinkers which is what I need), I'm posting it here as a straight-out thread to try and get some more input.

I AM aware that there was a Miner profession that was yanked out of beta due to the Devs believing there was a lack of support / content, but from what I have been seeing I believe they were mistaken.

Let me know what you all think

COPY/PASTE from the Artisan forum (modified slightly from the prev DE thread):

PS I won't be offended by criticisms. Feel free to flame it or praise it all you want.

Geologist:

Skill prerequisites: Artisan 4/0/0/4 (Engineering and Surveying)

Scout 4/0/0/4 (Exploration and Survival)

50000 Surveying Experience

Surveying Range - 10 x 10 grid at master (+1 for each box in a branch, and master)

Able to select on the survey tool resources of a specific quality type (like OQ, Cond, etc) anda min stat cap. Example, if the MG wants to survey forChemical with a PE of 700 or higher, they simply set the variables. After a short wait, say5 -10 minutes,those automatically show up yellow on the tool resource select screen. MG then surveys to find concentrations of it as usual.

Survey Droids return with a WP of 50% (10% for each box of a branch, and master) of a specified resource. Requires the use of a second droid (one to get the initial info as normal, then one to find the WP of the single resource).

~~Able to dig up up to35 units per survey when doing it by hand at master.~~

Increased bonus of 50% to success rates of sampling, making sampling in lower concentration areas easier (10% for each box of branch, and master)

Gets a 1BER bonus to Harvesters (at master)

Gets a system e-mail when resources shift away from a harvester.

Slightly less strict placement of harvesters. The more skilled the Geologist, the slightly steeper an incline a harvester can be placed on.

Can set up "Resource Beacons" that will send a report to the MG the concentration %'swhere it is sitting of a selected class (Mineral, Flora, etc) twice a day. Beacons take 1 lot, require Maint and Power, and return only the single %'s of the exact spot it's sitting (making is less than Novice Artisan for surveying range) MG must be on the planet to receive the report. If not on the planet, at next visit to the planet the MG receives an update (if the last one is over 12 hours old). The MG must maintain the prereq skill (Survey Equip 3 in present tree) to receive the updates, operate the beacon, or place maintenance on it.

Able to set up a basecamp similar to aRanger, but instead of the Ranger bonuses, it gives the MG a +10 surveying Range (+2 for each box in a branch, and master) that stacks with normal surveying range bonus for up to a 20 x 20 grid at master. Basecamps have to be up for 2 minutes before being effective. MG's while in the basecamp receive their Survey Droid results back 50% faster (10% for each box, and master).

Beacon schematic is attained at Engineering 4.

Basecamp schematic is received at Novice Geologist (Basecamp exp is needed to attain the first box in the Basecamp branch, similar to rangers and scouts)

BASIC TREE:

Novice:

Basecamp Schematic

+5-unit hand surveying bonus

Harvester Efficiency -Surveying Efficiency-

1)+.2 BER - + 1degree less restriction 1)+1 Survey Range -+10% hand surveying bonus

2)+.2 BER - + 1degree less restriction2)+1 Survey Range - +10% hand surveying bonus

3)+.2 BER - + 1degree less restriction-shift e-mail 3)+1 Survey Range - +10% hand surveying bonus

4)+.2 BER - + 1degree less restriction4)+1 Survey Range - +10% hand surveying bonus

10% less harv maint

Base Camps-Surveying Equipment-

1)+2 Camp Surveying range - 10% faster droid results1) Survey droid can return 10% wp

2)+2 Camp Surveying range - 20% faster droid results2) Survey droid can return 20% wp

3)+2 Camp Surveying range - 30% faster droid results3) Survey droid can return 30% wp - place Beacon

4)+2 Camp Surveying range - 40% faster droid results4) Survey droid can return 40% wp - can set tool variables

Master:

+.2 BER (total of +1 BER)

+1degree less restriction(total of 5deg less strict harv placement)

+1 Survey Range (total of 10 x 10 grid)

+10% hand surveying bonus (+50% bonus total for successes)

+2 Camp Surveying range(15 x 15 grid alone,bonus stacks with Surveying Efficiency for a total of20 x 20 grid)

+50% faster droid results

+ Survey droid can return 50% wp

PS Thiswas originallyjust for fun, and was not intended to be a proposal. However, some great ideas got started that same way. If people like it, promote it. If not, we can sit and smile at it, and call it belittling names.

[most recent edit: changed unit bonus for hand sampling to a % bonus for hand sampling successes, increasing the chance in low concentration areas instead of receiving more units]

Message Edited by Jjiaah on 10-07-2004 06:55 AM

Trobon18

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:43 pm

#2

Great Idea

duncje

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:07 pm

#3

One thing jumps out at me right away:

Able to dig up up to70 units per survey when doing it by hand at master.

You're asking for trouble here. A single MG could theoretically pull up 10K+ units per hour (if I did the math right). A single MG could flood the resource market, potentially destroying the economy.

Overall though, a nice proposal. I would personally like to see some sort of "refining" as well, maybe in very small amounts, so as not to flood the market with high quality resources .

Beebo
Master Droid Engineer | Shipwright | Master Artisan
Crazy Beebo's Discount Droids & Ships {-1075 -2924} Bestine, Tatooine

Straker_Atrella

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:36 am

#4

Overall the idea is very cool, a couel of points though.

As was already said the 70 per sample is to much, people could afk sample a ton of resources.

Now, a lot of your proposal calls for increased surveying range. This has been tossed out a lot before, and the Devs said it wasn't really possible without vast changes. It was something about the way that the server and client work together, that the resource didn't actually "exist" beyond a certian range at a certain point. It deals with the zones.

I really like some of the other ideas though.

Honestly, I would like to just see some of them added to the Master Artisan level. My best suggestion is a combination of what you already said.

New Harvestor Certs. gotten at Master Artisan. Identical to the ones we have now, Mineral, Flora, Chem, and Gas. However, you have 2 new versions, the "floating" one that works on or near water; and the Rough terrain version, kind of a Harvestor on stilts.

Not only would this give Archs something else to make, it would give Master Artisans a little edge.

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Jeryld

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:00 am

#5

Hmmm...to my mind, one of the glaring omissions in JTL is the lack of an Asteroid Mining type profession...personally I think any new resource collecting profession would be more interesting if it was space based, andprobably more popular too....

Cheers

Message Edited by Jeryld on 10-07-2004 03:00 AM

Jjiaah

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:52 am

#6

Jeryld wrote:

Hmmm...to my mind, one of the glaring omissions in JTL is the lack of an Asteroid Mining type profession...personally I think any new resource collecting profession would be more interesting if it was space based, andprobably more popular too....

Cheers

Message Edited by Jeryld on 10-07-2004 03:00 AM

That would be a welcome addition, that is for certain.

Going back to the other concerns, I have omitted the unit sampling bonus and replaced it with an increased chance for success, making sampling in a very low density area easier. This negates the problem (which I had not anticipated, thank you guys) of hand-macro'ers digging up insane quantities in way too short a time. Someone digging up rocks by hand should not be able to out-do a large piece of digging machinery.

I had not heard about the range issue, though I must say I find it disheartening. Short of BER increases, or new equipment, increased sampling range is really the only thing that would do a significant boost in utility.Perhaps if something like this had enough support, the changes would be warranted and implemented. While I wouldn't anticipate it being anywhere in the near future, such changes may be on the slate already for something else or perhaps may be worked into an expansion (as the manpower is dedicated to it already).

As far as harvs on stilts, that kindof goes with what I was saying about decreased restrictions on harv placement. But at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with adding a new kind of harvester that would be required for say at the 3% and higher bonuses. Adding a certification to those specifically I don't have an objection with. I did not include certs for other harvesters as I did not want to propose taking away from anyone else, but instead to boost something new. That would give Architects something new to make, even if it is something that is very specialized and limited to 1 profession, and nobody else would lose utility. Floating harvs are something else I find facinating, especially concidering on TC2-Bria/Ahazi if you ask the blue frog for resources, one of the "power" options is Tidal Energy.......

Message Edited by Jjiaah on 10-07-2004 06:55 AM

Jjiaah

Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:09 am

#7

duncje wrote:

Overall though, a nice proposal. I would personally like to see some sort of "refining" as well, maybe in very small amounts, so as not to flood the market with high quality resources .

Perhaps something along the lines of choosing a stat to boost, and it takes 10k of the resource to kick out 100 of the refined resource.

I love the idea personally, and would cheer out loud if such a thing were possible.

The only downside I really see to that is the massive amount of increased database space that would be required for such an ability. And that is a HUGE downside.

For example, say the only resource you could boost would be Desh copper, and only it's OQ. Say the OQ could only be changed by 1 point and assume that a fail does change the 10k into 100 units, but without the OQ increase. That would in effect double the amount of database space required to store information on Desh Copper... one entry for the normal resource, and 1 entry for the refined version. Now, if you allow it to to have a range of say 1-10 (not necessarily digits, but increments.. perhaps 5OQ per increment) that can in essence create up to 10x the database entries for Desh Copper alone. Now, given the number of resources in the game that could potentially be refined even at the original example of 1 increase for 1 standarized stat would *double* the required database space. Every stat you allow to be increased would exponentially increase the required space. And that is just at a single increase (pass or fail). If there is any degree of varience, that further causes increases. This has the potential to not only takeTON more hardware and programming, but also could cause a degredation in game speed and performance. This is something I don't see them doing... ever.

And it's too bad, too. That is one of the few ideas I have seen that actually got me really psyched up for a moment.

IceTigger

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:01 am

#8

I noticed a potential issue. Currently, the most effective ‘geologist’ is Artisan 0044/Merchant 0400. Merchant has Reduced Maintenance fees (20% reduction) that, on paper at least, is as good or better then the proposed master geologist on a cost per unit bases. The skill investment is a lot less for similar results, making the merchant much more attractive.

Good start needs to look at the impact on other professions to make it truly unique.

Straker_Atrella

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:11 am

#9

I wasn't suggesting making people get certed to handle "normal" Harvestors. Just the new special ones. Wanted to be sure I was clear.

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Jjiaah

Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:38 am

#10

IceTigger wrote:

I noticed a potential issue. Currently, the most effective ‘geologist’ is Artisan 0044/Merchant 0400. Merchant has Reduced Maintenance fees (20% reduction) that, on paper at least, is as good or better then the proposed master geologist on a cost per unit bases. The skill investment is a lot less for similar results, making the merchant much more attractive.

Good start needs to look at the impact on other professions to make it truly unique.

If you combineMaster Geologistwith Master Merchant, you've got a killer resource gatherer/merchant. The biggest advantage to the Geologist over the current "miner" template is the ability to find available resources, quality resources, and high concentrations of themfaster than the non-geologist counterpart. When that rare once-a-year uberresource spawns, the first to know will be the Geo's, who will have first notice of a shift, check for quality / concentrations while others are discovering the shift, and get their harvs down in the best spots while others are still surveying for concentrations. I think that the ability to have that edge alone would be worth spending the skillpoints on as a profession were resources my main income.

A template I suggested in the Artisan forum was Artisan 4/-/4/4,Scout 4/1/1/4, Master Geologist, Master Merchant for those that want to run a solid business, which even gives the flexibility to run a mini-mall.

Another suggested was Artisan 4/-/3/4, Scout 4/-/-/4, Master Geologist, Brawler 4/-/-/-, Master TK. That give combat ability, and still a vendor (though the items limit on the vendor is fairly low).

Even another possibility would be Artisan 4/-/4/4, Scout 4/1/1/4, Merchant -/4/-/-, Master Geologist, Master (WS, AS, Arch, or DE).

Heck, you could even make a template involving only parts of Geologist instead of the whole tree, like just the equipment branch or the efficiency branch.

As far as the impact on other professions, they won't have any reduction in ability to start. DE's will get a boost from increased survey droid sales (which isn't that much at current), Archs will get the boost from Harv sales, Merchant mall owners can have a more concentrated efficient resource partner, WS's and AS's won't be affected much except that they may find resources they need a little more readily available. Doc's / CM's, Tailors, and Chefsmay find their resources more readily available. None of the combat / entertainer professions should see any impact. The availability of the resources would likely help drop prices a bit which would be good for the economy.

I do appreciate the input on this. Critical thinking is important for things like this, and that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you

Straker:

I believe you came across loud and clear on that.

And I agree.This is an exerptfrom a response I made in the Artisan thread (more relating to cross-server lot swapping):

As far as stilted / floating harvesters, I like that idea and am working out in my head a way to include them (this wasn't the first time it's been proposed). What might work is add the ability for floating harvesters at master, and stilted harvesters for inclines from 3-5% more than "normal" restrictions, but you must maintain the minimum skill to be able to place, maintain, and operate them. This prevents cross-server lot swapping unless someone wants to make a MG specifically for that purpose. That's just too much work for most people.

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Thread: Elite Profession: Geologist