CUEmu - Thread Posts

Straker_Atrella

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:46 pm

While reading Drashk's Centralized Droid issues, I was sort of disturbed to see on the "general issues and wish list" that we wanted experimentation on subcomponants to matter. No disrespect or anything towards Drashk, but I'm not sure the DE community as a whole wants that, and if they do, I want to make sure that people know what they/we are getting into.

Already as a DE, we need 50+ resources, many of which are named. Some of these need to be quality and others don't. I don't know about the rest of you, but I constantly run 18 Harvestors, upgrading my resources as they spawn, getting more "filler" stuff when it runs out. Between my 3 Warehouses, 3 Factories, and 18 Harvestors, I still find myself spread to thin sometimes. I can't imagine how a DE with one account could cope.

Yet we need to think of them as well.

Saying "experimentation on subcomponants should matter," sounds great. Yet the problem is that if that happens, then resource quality will matter as well. No more "filler," resources. You will need to use your good stuff on everything from EMM's to Motive assemblies. Two things will happen, you will use your "good stuff" increasing this usage, meaning you will run out faster. Or you will use "filler" stuff still, meaning your Droid will be worse then it is right now. Going medium wont help either, because anything short of premium resources will mean, your droid will be worse then now.

If this were implemented, Droid prices would rise, after all, your using far more quality resources. Yet unless your using "perfect" resources, your droid quality "may" drop. People will balk at paying more for a worse droid. Don't bother trying to explain to them. We would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

While I agree in theory that having the ability to experiment on something, yet it being pointless is stupid. So remove the ability to experiment.

In my opinion, having this on our wish list is foolish at best. The developers may actually look at the list and look for something to "give us." This may be easier then other things, and hell were "wishing" for it. I would far rather get Droid Decay or Binding to houses. The last thing I need is something that is going to actually make MORE work and inconvienance for me.

Sure, make experimentation matter on new modules, especially the Space Expansion, I'm fine with that.

Let's just be careful what we wish for.

So am I a minority? Is this really what people want?

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

falacy

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:02 pm

#2

All things considered, I am FOR this idea. Diversity breeds enjoyment!

As for, "meaning your Droid will be worse then it is right now"... Well, the Devs could make it so that a droid couldn't be worse than the minumum current specs. So, you could use whatever you wanted and end up with a basic droid, or you could use the better (or the best) materials to get an uber droid. That seems fair to me.

People forget what things cost over time. Eventually, they'll be willing to pay more for a truly good droid. It's no different than paying nearly $3 for a 35 cent loaf of bread - you just get used to it.

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Straker_Atrella

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:22 pm

#3

Ok Falacy, I'm with you on that. If a system was put in that the current standard was the "crap" standard, and the minimum, then using better stuff made your droid better, basically uber. I would probably prosper from that, I do harvest a lot. Yet, how would that work? Would they droid be faster, have more HAM, the modules work better, decay slower? Your also talking balance issues, how much better are they willing to make droids?

While I shudder at having to use good resources on the 4k EMM's and EGP's I use a week, I would support a new experimentation system, if it made droid better and made sense.

But that's just it, there is no proposed system. People just want "experimentation to matter." At least for decay and binding, we have proposed systems, ones that will benefit the profession as a whole. By just saying we want experimentation to matter, I feel we are opening ourselves up to more negative then good.

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

GnomeAd

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:33 pm

#4

I agree with you 100%. If the devs were to make experimentation on sub-components matter, the already depressed droid market would really hit bottom.

On a side note, however, I would like to see us get the same setup the architects have. Mainly that subcomponents that don't effect the end product can't be experimented on. This might satisfy both camps.

KnightHawk420

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:31 pm

#5

I think there are a number of things in the professions, where experimentation would be screwball and ass backwards to implement. Storage modules come to mind.. We have levels 1 - 6, if experimentation comes into play, what happens with those various grade of modules.. I mean the best we can get right now is 10 item storage. Having storage 1 - 6 already convulutes that pretty heavily without having experimentation come into play. I mean at least just from the surface it seems that if we do put in experimentation the difference between the uber droid and the not uber droid is gonna be a whopping 2 items.... bleh... that's just assanine.

If this professions is to have experimentation really come into play fully, the professions and all the things going into it, are gonna have to be revamped so that this profession still makes any sense.

To put it another way, if experimentation ever matters, alot more content is gonna have to be put into Droids in general. Currently an R3 moves just as fast or as slow as every other R3. And quite frankly if there were differences in speed, that would be rather silly as well. IMHO.

In short, forget experimentation, we need more content in this profession for taht experimentation to even make sense. We need more "variables". stats and such. Droid engineer really doesn't have any. And what stats it does have are gated by the particular components used irrespective of the resources. Unlike weaponsmith and armorsmith for example. Weaponsmiths don't have 6 variations of a blaster power handler that determines how high the dmg is. It's all resources to them, the component is always the same. DE is functionally different in this respect, which makes experimentation a really bad idea for this profession.

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darthfodder

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:19 pm

#6

on the one hand my 2 extra exp points are basically worthless, whoever its not like i sell many droids to begin with, so why make things worse.

Gavvot

Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:25 am

#7

/agreed.

Experiment is one way to add variety.

We already have loads of modules and chassis for that.
I think that for the crafters, only the tailor has more variety than us.
AS could have more, but their system is quite fubar.
Our's is good.
I'm ok with some experimentation where it's usefull.

But on sub-component, I don't see the point, and I'm against it., I certainly don't need more time sink.

More modules, yeah, more info on droids, yeah, more bug fixes yeah, more experiment, hum, well, maybe, what for?

--
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OckVofad

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:32 am

#8

No! No! No!

Bad Idea! I enjoy the fact that I can use grind quality resources for the subcomponents.

All it would do is make quality droids more difficult to make and force us to drive up the prices. Which people already have a problem paying.

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starcraftWS

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:47 am

#9

As was said above... we need a ton of named resources. Some of these resources spawn in very infrequently *cough*lidium*cough*.

I can see making quality matter on most future modules, but I don't think our current module/subcomponent experimentation rules need to be changed.

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Straker_Atrella

Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:01 pm

#10

I thought some more about this as well. From a "logical" perspective it doesn't make sense either.

What does the Droid Sensor Array do?

When was the last time your droid grabbed something with his manipulator arm?

When did your droid have a good thought on his own using his brain?

About the only thing that actually makes sense is the droid motive system, since they do move around.

So if "experimentation mattered" there would be 2 options.

1. All of those above parts would need to actually "do" something. Meaning a large rework of the droid system.

2. They stayed pointless like now, just pieces in a puzzle, however their "quality score" had some effect on the end result droid.

I would far rather see a decay system or other cool things added then number 1. Number 2 would mean more work, and the current standard of droid would probably be harder to reach.

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Drashk

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:48 am

#11

Experimentation on subcomponents has no perceivable effect on the final droid. There are even signs that suggest that highly experimented parts create a higher chance of Crit Fails on a Chassis or Deed experimentation.

Straker, I think that you missed what I was getting at with the reference to making experimentation mean something. With the current crafting system that we have, non-experimented subcomponents actually seem to produce a high percentage chance of success when building a droid. Higher Mechanism Ratings tend to lead to a lower percent chance of success. We have 2 listings for almost every subcomponent that we have, yet experimentation on either of these fields could lead to a higher chance of a Crit Fail. What this item addresses is the need for the DEVs to change subcomponents to either a) not having experimentation fields, since experimentation seems to only increase the Complexity of the item b) give higher rated parts a bonus to the experimentation roll, c) some other form of action that adjusts our rather backwards crafting system so that we aren't harming our chances of a success by trying to make the best droid you can.

Making SWG more Star Warsy. One droid at a time.

Straker_Atrella

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:58 am

#12

Drashk wrote:

Experimentation on subcomponents has no perceivable effect on the final droid. There are even signs that suggest that highly experimented parts create a higher chance of Crit Fails on a Chassis or Deed experimentation.

Straker, I think that you missed what I was getting at with the reference to making experimentation mean something. With the current crafting system that we have, non-experimented subcomponents actually seem to produce a high percentage chance of success when building a droid. Higher Mechanism Ratings tend to lead to a lower percent chance of success. We have 2 listings for almost every subcomponent that we have, yet experimentation on either of these fields could lead to a higher chance of a Crit Fail. What this item addresses is the need for the DEVs to change subcomponents to either a) not having experimentation fields, since experimentation seems to only increase the Complexity of the item b) give higher rated parts a bonus to the experimentation roll, c) some other form of action that adjusts our rather backwards crafting system so that we aren't harming our chances of a success by trying to make the best droid you can.

Drashk, let me see if I'm following you.

Your saying that if I experiment on say a Manipulator Arm assembly, that means I have a higher chance to fail on the the final droid? Where is this information coming from?

I have "felt" the opposite was true, I always seem to crit fail far more often, if I am "lazy" and trying to put a bunch of stuff together that has a low or negative mechanism rating. This is why when I make my factory runs of subcomponants I ALWAYS experiment.

So are you saying, that by doing this, I may actually be INCREASING my failures?

If what you are saying is true, then it's not that we want experimentation to matter, it's that we need an assembly bug fixed. There is no way that a better part should fail more often.

If this is the case and your trying to get a bug fixed, then I 100% agree, however, in numerous parts of your post, you made it appear that you wanted experimentation to matter on sub-componants. That is something I am very much against.

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Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Yalton

Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:14 pm

#13

Must say I agree with this last posts of Straker.

Bugs need to be fixed. Filler resources are good. Filler resources save me a lot of money.

Also Straker on a side note I'm doing some mods to the resources list you have developd. Would you like a copy?

Ingred' Silverfire, Master Droid Engineer

Message Edited by Yalton on 07-14-2004 02:15 PM

Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Should experimentation matter on everything? Sort of a poll.